HEY NOOBS! Forget Openings, Study Tactics (The right way)

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AntonioEsfandiari
josephyossi wrote:

I will show you a game I won WITHOUT Tactics with one bishop. I will just show how the mate looked. I had no plan or tactic. 

 

Haha i didnt even see this before... Are you serious or trolling? You won with a tactic.. Mate in 1... is a tactic.

RoobieRoo

Thankyou to the OP, you can tell them the truth, but they are unwilling to let reality make any inroads! Openings suck.

kindaspongey
DeirdreSkye wrote:

 ... Nakamura who said that when he was a kid he was winning by playing nonsense but that had to stop when he become a GM so he studied openings a lot. ...

Is it realistic for a player to hope to have the same experience as Nakamura?

Spartan_jpd300

His 'tactic' theory is a total bs. Keep up the good work OP.Throw the noobs to the wolfs and jackals.

Reb

We need to distinguish between OTB chess and online chess and between fast games and classic/slow games .  Whats good advice for one may be bad advice for the other . If you are an OTB player another good reason to know some openings is because of the clock . While you may be able to avoid traps with just general consideration through the first dozen moves or so if you take 20 minutes to do so to your opponent's 5 ( because he has memorized the opening moves ) you are at a big disadvantage on the clock already . So , for such practical reasons its a good idea to do some opening work . I agree however that beginners ( definition needed ) should spend most of their study time on tactics . Beginners rarely reach endings so they need not study endings beyond basic endings .  How do we define " beginner" ? 

AntonioEsfandiari

@Spartan  I thought so... No evidence.  I don't know why it is that you don't want to accept the truth, tactics are the most important thing for you to be doing right now to improve as a player. 
           A lot of authors are trying to sell opening books.   Maybe it is the only type of book some of these authors are qualified to write!  Maybe some of them are desperate for sales, it's hard making any type of living in chess as an IM or lower, most of their profit comes from these sales,  so of course they aren't going to stop a beginner from buying their book, even though they know it is probably not the most study resource for them.  Again we will open up the floor for challenges:  Option A) Please provide a quote in which a professional chess player stated that an opening book had the biggest impact on his/her development.  Option B)  Demonstrate that most of your games have been decided out of the opening, and that the evaluation didn't shift multiple times after the opening (good luck) grin.png grin.png grin.png grin.png grin.png grin.png  Option C) Ignore all of the data, keep trolling and hurting the hard working new students that might benefit from learning that tactics/calculation is the #1 thing hindering their advancement.   While I would prefer you refraining from option C, I surely cannot prevent you from doing it.  Honestly I love all of you, we are all human just trying to figure out our purpose here on this strange blue planet spiraling through the universe.  If you are truly interested in diligent chess study and the mental rewards produced by seeing positive results as the fruit of labor, take the *Two-Month Tactics Challenge* Spend 1 hour each day on tactics (preferably before you even play 1 game or log onto forums) for 2 months.  You will complete around 2000 puzzles in just 2 months time.  If you have never done this, TRY IT, it friggen works!  The problem is most people do not have the patience or motivation for such a thing.  I have worked for Orlov Chess Academy and I have done a decent amount of coaching.  I am not some random internet troll spewing BS.  What was the biggest thing that made a student go from 600-900? Tactics.. 900-1200?  Tactics.. 1200-1500? You guessed it TACTICS.  TACTICS are how you gain or maintain material, if you are down material, without significant compensation, you are in a losing position, it is pretty simple to understand.

kindaspongey
AntonioEsfandiari wrote:

and another reason why focusing on openings is stupid, opening theory changes, tactical patterns don't . alpha zero already showed us that we may be completely off in some of our opening assessments, and that was with less than a day of training, so what happens to all the time you spend basically memorizing hundreds of variations that are already fading out of popularity. what happens when chess 960 becomes more popular than chess? I guess all is not lost because you could relate similar plans to similar structures...but there won't be these huge upset games because the lower rated player was more prepared (unless they show the position well before the tournament) but even still the long-term value of memorizing specific lines will only decrease as we plunge into the future.

Who is advocating that a player focus on openings, memorizing hundreds of variations and seeking huge upset games?

"... Overall, I would advise most players to stick to a fairly limited range of openings, and not to worry about learning too much by heart. ..." - FM Steve Giddins (2008)

"... I feel that the main reasons to buy an opening book are to give a good overview of the opening, and to explain general plans and ideas. ..." - GM John Nunn (2006)

"... the average player only needs to know a limited amount about the openings he plays. Providing he understands the main aims of the opening, a few typical plans and a handful of basic variations, that is enough. ..." - FM Steve Giddins (2008)

Reb

Antonio , do you have an OTB rating ? Have you ever played in a rated OTB event ? 

Spartan_jpd300

I agree to an extend about what you recommend for my improvement.but still it doesn't explain the need to train a total beginner in tactics.You are a bit delusional to say that an utter beginner even understands tactics.Hell...,where did you learn your openings from...mothers womb?!

SteamGear
AntonioEsfandiari wrote:

I am talking about STUDYING openings.  You do not need to buy an opening book and read it, THAT is what I am saying. IF you play thousands of blitz games or hundreds of slow games you will LEARN about your openings and all of the basic traps and tactics (hopefully) WITHOUT having to crack open a book that is full of variations to memorize. 

Sure, that's one way to do it. Though it's probably not the quickest, nor the most reliable.

There are a lot of players who, left to their own trial and error, will simply come to the wrong conclusions and fail to improve.

We've all seen them: those who've been at it for decades and are still struggling at a lower level. Often they rely on their own invented openings, which frequently have no real bearing on the position at hand—but rather are just some repeated setup that they try to accomplish every single game.

Or the players who maneuver around one-move tactics, not really seeing the board at a deeper level, playing reactionary chess rather than actually forming plans that relate to the openings at hand.

For players like this, telling them to just "figure it out by doing tactics!" probably isn't the best solution.

Tactics are certainly important, and any study regimen that involves tactical study should be applauded. But we shouldn't be promoting ignorance in the openings, either.

AntonioEsfandiari
Reb wrote:

We need to distinguish between OTB chess and online chess and between fast games and classic/slow games .  Whats good advice for one may be bad advice for the other . If you are an OTB player another good reason to know some openings is because of the clock . While you may be able to avoid traps with just general consideration through the first dozen moves or so if you take 20 minutes to do so to your opponent's 5 ( because he has memorized the opening moves ) you are at a big disadvantage on the clock already . So , for such practical reasons its a good idea to do some opening work . I agree however that beginners ( definition needed ) should spend most of their study time on tactics . Beginners rarely reach endings so they need not study endings beyond basic endings .  How do we define " beginner" ? 
Reb,  most of our audience are probably players that would end up being 800-1400 OTB, whether they want to admit it or not.  Sure they should know some basic moves, E4 D4 NF3 C4 NC3 they should know HOW to develop their pieces. WHY a "knight on the rim is dim"  WHY not to move the same piece twice without justification, WHY not to bring out the queen too early, WHY and HOW to control the center, WHY they should castle,    But they should NOT be concerned about learning every variation of their opening 8+ moves deep with precise move orders...They SHOULD not buy an opening book, unless it is a beginners opening book explaining opening PRINCIPLES not specific variations.

 

AntonioEsfandiari
Reb wrote:

Antonio , do you have an OTB rating ? Have you ever played in a rated OTB event ? 

I have only played in 4 OTB tournaments, 21 Games, I have a provisional rating of 1819 USCF but that is 2 years old and I have improved drastically since.  I am studying openings now, but not by buying some stupid book.  I will use chessgames.com or another resource to look at game after game in the same openings by different players, that is how I study openings, but I am not qualified enough to suggest that method to others, but I like it a lot myself.

Reb

Why dont I find you on uschess.org ? Isnt that your name on your homepage ?  Laak,Philip ?

kindaspongey
AntonioEsfandiari wrote:

... Like you said everyone is different, and everyone learns in different ways, yet you are throwing around dozens of book suggestions with quotes and links, Everyone has their own strengths and weaknesses and different things they should improve upon, but EVERYONE needs to work on or stay sharp with tactics (if chess is a real interest or hobby, and more than just a casual game to pass the time for them) 

I list possibilities , and the links are intended to help people to judge whether or not this or that book is something that they want to work on. Do you imagine that I have ever advised anyone to not work on tactics?

AntonioEsfandiari
dannyhume wrote:
This debate again? Awesome. Here’s my first contribution for the sixteenth time...

I have heard many masters say not to memorize opening moves/lines, but I have yet to hear one say ‘do not study openings’ or ‘you can become a master without study the openings.’

Has anybody met anyone who has tactic’d and generally strategized his/her way to master? What do you do when there is no big material gain or checkmate on the horizon, as is often the case at high club level chess? Hope your opponent hands one to you for free? Hope your tactics and calculation skills are 3 classes higher than your booked up and similarly-rated opponent, who must have only gotten to that level through sheer dumb luck against a succession other booked up tactical idiots? Take the open file with your rook? Oh, but you should have figured out that all the action was on the other side of the board, like the many prior masters may or may not have figured out by now after 70 years of evolving theory, if only you TRULY knew the general principles of positional chess and knew how to assess a position unlike that 1800-level positional idiot, Paul Morphy.

Hey OK, lets FORGET the achieving master debate without studying openings at all, yes i'll admit it would honestly be really hard, but this forum is for BEGINNERS and what they need to know that the main thing that is preventing them from gaining their next few hundred pts is becoming more precise with calculations.  I think some of you higher rated players may be forgetting just how many tactical mistakes 1200 level players make.   The chance of a 1200 OTB producing a perfect tactical game in a dynamic position against a good opponent is less than 1 in a million.  At the 600-1400 level, you can spend 80% of your study time on tactics puzzles, 15% on watching videos on strategy/positional play, and 5% of your time studying openings, and this might be close to optimal for most of these players 

PolgarFan1

This article delighted me. I was convinced about the importance of the tactic study, but I was still trying to memorize opening moves. I won't do that anymore. From now on, I will just focus on my tatics. 

AntonioEsfandiari
Reb wrote:

Why dont I find you on uschess.org ? Isnt that your name on your homepage ?  Laak,Philip ?

No, I will send you my name on PM

josephyossi
AntonioEsfandiari wrote:
josephyossi wrote:

I will show you a game I won WITHOUT Tactics with one bishop. I will just show how the mate looked. I had no plan or tactic. 

 

Haha i didnt even see this before... Are you serious or trolling? You won with a tactic.. Mate in 1... is a tactic.

I am serious. I mated my dad OTB

kindaspongey
DeirdreSkye wrote:

...     Don't bother with spongey , he is here to mislead ...

Want to complain about a specific sentence by me? I did not pick the name of this thread:

"HEY NOOBS! Forget Openings, Study Tactics (The right way)"

AntonioEsfandiari

Honestly I love the controversy though!  While a lot of trolls are miserable or just attention-deprived, they are actually benefiting in a way by keeping this as a "hot topic" so as a result more noobs are exposed to this notion that they need to try being diligent with the tactics trainer for a couple of months straight and see if it doesn't drastically improve their chess.