How balanced is chess?

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Lopsidation

To those who think chess is a draw with best play:

-If you remove one of Black's pawns, do you think it's still a draw or is it now won for White? How much of an advantage does White need for a theoretical win?

To those who think chess is a theoretical win for White or Black:

-With best play, how many moves do you estimate it takes to checkmate?

 

Note that I'm NOT asking if chess itself is a theoretical win, draw, or loss for White. We all know that's been brought up enough times on the forum.

jmlefebvre

What a fascinating question.  I hate Tic-Tac-Toe for the very reason that it is impossible to win if whoever starts first knows how to win and it's impossible NOT to draw if both player know how to win.

But I gotta agree with the above post.  A more important deciding factor is skill and foresight.

yusuf_prasojo

Lopsidation is asking about theoretical win/draw or a forced win/draw. I believe that chess is a draw. If you remove Black's f-pawn I guess Black will loose. I haven't tried it but to me it is enough to prove it by letting engines to play the position in may be 50-100 games, only up to positions where one side has more than +1.5 advantage. I guess at least in 80% White will win.

Interesting homework...

Natalia_Pogonina

Any extra pawn at the start of the game should be enough for a win.

jmlefebvre
Natalia_Pogonina wrote:

Any extra pawn at the start of the game should be enough for a win.


In theory i agree - and as a titled player why should I not? - but I can think of several situations where a pawn has gotten in my way or in some way affected my game negatively or blocked what otherwise would have been a great move.  I am a REALLY new player though and this assessment is surely due to my inexperience.  So again, I should revert back to my original answer; skill is the deciding factor in my opinion.

jmlefebvre

***I should note I wasn't calling myself a titled player; I realize the ambiguity of that sentence.

mvocale

The original post refers to "best play".  Therefore, in this thread, skill has nothing do do with the question :)

"Best play" is a theoretical concept.  Think of it as the hypothesis that both sides have infinite skill, or infinite intelligence.  The sense of the original post is:  given this hypothesis (and therefore, looking at the game of chess from its logical/mathematical perspective), how much advantage or how many moves do you think are needed for the game to end with a checkmate?