How to deal with the purposeful fouls of opponents?

Sort:
Avatar of vikingchucky

Hi all, this is my 2nd thread here. As you can see, I have a problem, during the 'real' games. 

And that problem is, well, my opponents. But let's introduce myself first. I'm a decent player and I play because I like it, and sometimes I'm able to win a book or something more :)                                                  

Why this topic? I take chess seriously (at least when I play in tournaments), and I think my game is fair play, I'm not interrupting others, I rarely offer draws and I resign the game when I see no hope. 

I'm basically alone, no club, no 'allies', maybe a few chess friends. So.. when I take part in tournaments, the arbiter is usually 'rooting for' local players.

I'm not saying all refs do that. Most of them are OK. But, anything can happen.. Now I describe two games from the worst tournament (in terms of cheating, opponents etc.) I took part:

1. Notorious guy                                                          

Guy with the black pieces, rated more that 300 rating points below me, offered me a draw in the following position:

How many of you would agree for a draw? None! It's obviously winning for white.

But, this guy was offering me a draw every next move, so what to do? Usually in those ridiculous cases, I reply: 'It isn't a draw'.

But he kept offering, I believe I wore my sunglasses (I'm not even sure why) till the end of the game. He eventually resigned around 10 moves later.

2. No comment...

The same tournament, another local player. I know I have to be aware of any suspicious things, because these guys are famous for their 'cheating skills'. 

I already knew.. why I even arrived to play there?

Nothing wrong has happened, except one thing: that guy was kicking me under the table! Not all the time obviously, I felt it from time to time. 

I knew talking to the ref wouldn't do anything about that, I'd continued to play. The game finished in the worst possible way for me: I was better, but I lacked one tempo in the end and it finished with a draw. I was so furious... (Well, still I'm).

Why I never complained? Because one other player did it almost all the time. Ref? He did nothing. In this tournament I wasn't an opponent for them, I was an enemy!

Conclusion? I'll never take part again in any tournament with that corrupted referee or arrive to that city.

And now, other cases: 

3. Annoying kid

Some kid, at the age of 12, maybe 14 was blowing the air in my direction. I believe I would even say what he ate month before, not a pleasant thing. It was purposeful. I even wanted to do the same, but, unfortunately, I brushed my teeth that morning :(  I was much worse, to not say losing, but he blundered which resulted in immediately won game for me. You can say anything you want, but I think it was deserved. 

4. Man, who was breathing too loud.

Yes, I'm not joking. During the game it was terribly distracting. I wanted to complain about it to the arbiter (he was neutral), but, unfortunately for me that was the last round of the tournament, and refs were attenting at the closing ceremony in some under-X group. I just couldn't sit there for even a minute, all I could did was walking there and avoiding listening those sounds...

5. Provocation during the games.

Here I just describe a type of player I hate to play: always provokes you, makes cheap tricks, almost invisible to the arbiters and makes everything to win against you, at all cost, fair or not.

So, my real question is, what to do, when calling the ref isn't enough? How to defend against it? I know, I just have wrote a lot..

And, what annoying cases you had experienced? How you deal with it?

Avatar of Bishop_g5

 I really dont know what advice to give...

 The experiences you describe is unpleasant for every chess player and i dont understand why the arbiters tolerate this situation in the 21st century, ignoring the abuse.

In that case, perhaps you should point out the incident in to those are responsible place the arbiters in the matches. The organizers.

You cant find solutions against the abusers with any other legal measure except than asking help and point attention to the organizers. There was a IM in the 70's late 80's , i think from France or Israel , i dont remember hes name. He used to kick their opponents under the table when at that time the arbitry was not , so much focused to deal with such incidents. They forfeit him couple of times but that didnt stoped him continue doing so...in the end what was decisive..is someone that punched him in the face and broke hes nose.

 There is another type of abusers...the so called ecentric, who like to drag attention by doing some lets say weird or not so esthetic things, like the Kid you described blowing air to your direction. I dont know if it is chess that racks them their brain do such things or their personality and character but you must find a way to ignore them the same as other players in the 20th century ignored Aaron Nimzowitz doing aerobics waiting hes move to play, drunk Alekhine make a pi in the carpetfoor or Rubinstein hunting flys and create a mess because he feld disturb.

 There is another type of abusers by accident. They are harmfull but dont understand they are annoying like the one you said breathing loud. In such cases you can issue the thing direct on them...in your surprise you will see them taking immediate action.

 I am not sure i can help you more.

Avatar of rharold56
Offer the kicker this deal: I will forfeit this game, but I get to break your nose. He won't accept, but he will be thinking about it for the entire game.
Avatar of vikingchucky
rharold56 wrote:
Offer the kicker this deal: I will forfeit this game, but I get to break your nose. He won't accept, but he will be thinking about it for the entire game.

Well, I really thought about breaking his nose! But I couldn't do that - I'd get banned from playing chess for, let's say, 2 years? That ref used to be one of the most important in my country.. I read a lot about him. Anyway, thanks, I'll remember that.

Avatar of vikingchucky
Bishop_g5 wrote:

You cant find solutions against the abusers with any other legal measure except than asking help and point attention to the organizers. There was a IM in the 70's late 80's , i think from France or Israel , i dont remember hes name. He used to kick their opponents under the table when at that time the arbitry was not , so much focused to deal with such incidents. They forfeit him couple of times but that didnt stoped him continue doing so...in the end what was decisive..is someone that punched him in the face and broke hes nose.

I heard also one Soviet player also was kicking someone under the table, I believe it was Polugaevsky.

Avatar of TODAY_WINNER_IS_ME

What you have experienced is quiet common from my experience.Your opponent has outsmarted you or has tried too physiologically and so has pushed your buttons.Chess is more than pushing the peices on the board and from what you have discribed there has been nothing illegal done.

Avatar of bbeltkyle89
vikingchucky wrote:

 

So, my real question is, what to do, when calling the ref isn't enough? How to defend against it? I know, I just have wrote a lot..

And, what annoying cases you had experienced? How you deal with it?

In each of the cases above, you did not actually "call the ref"....so how do you know its "not enough" to begin with. Grab a pair, then grab the arbiter...

Avatar of Bramblyspam

OK, obviously I wasn't there, so I don't know any of the specifics first hand. However, I believe that "if you have trouble with one person, chances are they have a problem. If you have trouble with a whole bunch of people, chances are you're the one with the problem".

If something is a major problem, then complain to the tournament director. If the problem isn't big enough for that, then stop letting it bother you. Just focus on the chess and finish the game. Next round you'll be playing someone else.

Avatar of sammy_boi
Bramblyspam wrote:

OK, obviously I wasn't there, so I don't know any of the specifics first hand. However, I believe that "if you have trouble with one person, chances are they have a problem. If you have trouble with a whole bunch of people, chances are you're the one with the problem".

If something is a major problem, then complain to the tournament director. If the problem isn't big enough for that, then stop letting it bother you. Just focus on the chess and finish the game. Next round you'll be playing someone else.

+1

First of all, you have to complain to the TD. If you didn't complain due to some manufactured paranoia, that's a personal problem you should work on.

Secondly some of those things (like breathing in your face or loudly) just happen. It's nothing against you. Focus on the game and move on to a new opponent.

Avatar of Uncle_Bent

I agree with @beltkyle89,  You didn't call the arbiter/TD, so don't complain here.  If your opponent is really doing things to purposely distract you, then the odds are he has done it before, and the TD is aware of it.  Besides, it's your duty to others that might play this person later.

Having said all that, it does sound like you are too sensitive too distractions.  Your opponent is breathing too loud?  Was he older with respiratory probems?  Kid kicking you?  Ask him to stop in a nice way.

Avatar of sammy_boi

As for the multiple draw offer thing, I saw a kid doing this on every move (on his opponent's time). After the guy got a little agitated, the kid started adjusting pieces on the opponent's time. The guy got real stern with the kid and said "you're not allowed to talk to me or touch the pieces on my time. Stop it." and that worked, the kid behaved after that.

Of course you're not supposed to talk to your opponent, you're supposed to get the TD, but this is just an experience I witnessed.

Avatar of TODAY_WINNER_IS_ME

After making my move and assuming my opponent is being distractive i would then get up and stand behind their chair.This can be very annoying.

Avatar of Uncle_Bent

My least favorite of "purposely fouling" opponent is the player that hurriedly moves his piece to a square, but in his haste to press his clock, knocks over a piece on the board, THEN hits his clock and THEN resets the piece while MY clock is running.  In a recent game I was up a piece in an endgame vs a 10 year old opponent.  I had about 90 secs left, plus a 5-sec delay, so not that critical, except that my opponent was trying to blitz me (fine with that), but was knocking over pieces every other move, and then resetting on my time.

After repeated warnings, he moved his rook to a square, but knocked it over and sent the rook rolling as he went to hit the clock, then BEFORE he could pick up his rolling rook I just captured it with my bishop as it rolled across a square on the bishop's diagonal.  He squealed in protest that we both knew what square he meant to move the rook to.  I told him to go find a TD if he didn't like it while I stayed at the board and analyzed.  He resigned.

Avatar of Pulpofeira
vikingchucky escribió:
Bishop_g5 wrote:

You cant find solutions against the abusers with any other legal measure except than asking help and point attention to the organizers. There was a IM in the 70's late 80's , i think from France or Israel , i dont remember hes name. He used to kick their opponents under the table when at that time the arbitry was not , so much focused to deal with such incidents. They forfeit him couple of times but that didnt stoped him continue doing so...in the end what was decisive..is someone that punched him in the face and broke hes nose.

I heard also one Soviet player also was kicking someone under the table, I believe it was Polugaevsky.

Not him, I assure you. It's said Karpov and Korchnoi were doing it to each other once.

Avatar of vikingchucky
Bramblyspam wrote:

OK, obviously I wasn't there, so I don't know any of the specifics first hand. However, I believe that "if you have trouble with one person, chances are they have a problem. If you have trouble with a whole bunch of people, chances are you're the one with the problem".

If something is a major problem, then complain to the tournament director. If the problem isn't big enough for that, then stop letting it bother you. Just focus on the chess and finish the game. Next round you'll be playing someone else.

Chances, that I have a problem.. OK, from the next tournament I'll behave like a complete jerk, and then we will see :) So, I'm sorry that I wrote about it.

Well, I think I played around 90% (maybe more) of 'fair' games, I just described the cases where it wasn't fair, when I didn't had equal chances, and I just want to know how to react. There is not much about it in books, or in the Internet... I can remember only one time when I was accused - my opponent said I was hitting the clock too strong, well, I say I was little on time then. I'm not talking about an errors you make when you begin to play, when you're young, it's obvious that you make mistakes.

When it happens one time in tournament, I say, well, these things are sometimes unavoidable. But more? It's suspicious. Btw, it happened quite a long time ago, I'm thinking about playing more than I used to, so that's something like part of my preparation.

Avatar of sammy_boi
Uncle_Bent wrote:

My least favorite of "purposely fouling" opponent is the player that hurriedly moves his piece to a square, but in his haste to press his clock, knocks over a piece on the board, THEN hits his clock and THEN resets the piece while MY clock is running.  In a recent game I was up a piece in an endgame vs a 10 year old opponent.  I had about 90 secs left, plus a 5-sec delay, so not that critical, except that my opponent was trying to blitz me (fine with that), but was knocking over pieces every other move, and then resetting on my time.

After repeated warnings, he moved his rook to a square, but knocked it over and sent the rook rolling as he went to hit the clock, then BEFORE he could pick up his rolling rook I just captured it with my bishop as it rolled across a square on the bishop's diagonal.  He squealed in protest that we both knew what square he meant to move the rook to.  I told him to go find a TD if he didn't like it while I stayed at the board and analyzed.  He resigned.

So for example rook from b1 to b3, then it was knocked over and rolled to b5, and you captured it Bxb5 as it lay on its side?

lol. That's pretty dirty. I'd definitely get the TD (the move is over after he lets go of it). Kind of mean to do that to a kid even if he was being a nuisance.

Avatar of Jenium

#1: Ignore. You could also mock the player, after all you have a winning position. I remember one GM rejected Nakamura's draw offer (when Naka was a rebellious kid) with the words: "I'll let you know when it's a draw.")

You could also complain to the arbiter.

#2&3: Complain or kick back. Here is a nice video by IM Waitzkin explaining how to deal with this kind of opponent.

#4: You can hardly force people not to breathe.

#5: If those tricks are tricks on the board like traps it is their right to do so...

Avatar of Jenium
Uncle_Bent wrote:

My least favorite of "purposely fouling" opponent is the player that hurriedly moves his piece to a square, but in his haste to press his clock, knocks over a piece on the board, THEN hits his clock and THEN resets the piece while MY clock is running.  In a recent game I was up a piece in an endgame vs a 10 year old opponent.  I had about 90 secs left, plus a 5-sec delay, so not that critical, except that my opponent was trying to blitz me (fine with that), but was knocking over pieces every other move, and then resetting on my time.

After repeated warnings, he moved his rook to a square, but knocked it over and sent the rook rolling as he went to hit the clock, then BEFORE he could pick up his rolling rook I just captured it with my bishop as it rolled across a square on the bishop's diagonal.  He squealed in protest that we both knew what square he meant to move the rook to.  I told him to go find a TD if he didn't like it while I stayed at the board and analyzed.  He resigned.

Nice. :-)

Avatar of Bramblyspam

A player who knocks over pieces is obligated to reset them on his/her own time. You are allowed to start your opponent's clock and tell them to fix things on their own time.

Avatar of RubenHogenhout

The first is easy. It is not allowed to destect the opponent by offering draws at any move.

So you can say after two or three draw offers. I do not accept a draw, if I want a draw then I will offer it.

If he then still make offers you can go to the arbiter en tell him that he makes draw offers every move.

 

The kicking is seldsom I must say. You can first ask him if he wants to stay with his legs on his side of the table. If he don t then also you can go to the arbiter and tell himhe is with his legs on your site of the table all the time.

 

For the rest I agree wit the others. For breathing or something or making noises. Try to let not yourself destract of the game because of everything! Focus on the game. It is also possible that you have a concentration problem. If this happens all the time I think it is.