How to solve this situation by using Fide rules?

Sort:
Avatar of pogadl

Hello, in this position white moved Bxf8, he forgot to push the clock and he went to toilet. When he returned he realised that he forgot to push the clock and he got no time. I don´t know what will result be. There are four alternatives. Culd you help me please? :)

A. White lost because of no time left. (0:1)

B. Result is (0,5:1), because white cant lose in this position and black is winning because of time

C. Result is (0:0,5), because black cant wint in this position.

D. It is draw( 0,5:0,5)

 

 

 

 

 


Avatar of pogadl

I am also not sure if move of white Bxf8 was finished, because he did not push the clock. It is hard situation. Foot in Mouth

Avatar of Robert_New_Alekhine

Black wins. 

Avatar of pogadl
Robert_New_Alekhine wrote:

Black wins. 

Yeah? Thanks but could black win? Because he will have only Bishop and King.

Avatar of Robert_New_Alekhine

White has not completed his move.

Therefore, black still has a bishop and knight.

The position is a theoretical draw, I believe, but there is a series of legal moves under which black can win.

Therefore, black wins. 

Avatar of ChessOfPlayer

because white did not push the clock, he did not complete his move.  If your time runs out during your move, you lose or draw if the opponent does not have sufficient material to mate.  Here black has enough material (bishop and knight) to mate and therefore wins by defualt.  Remember his Bxf8 move was not played legally so black still has two pieces to mate.

Avatar of Lagomorph

There was a discussion here recently of similar themes. At least one FIDE arbiter gave his opinion. Based on that I suggest:

The move Bxf8 was a legal one despite black not pressing his clock. The "completing" of a move (FIDE rules article 6.2) is relevant for timekeeping, not for the legality of a move (Article 3)

After white flagged, because black cannot mate "by any series of legal moves" (article 6.9) the result should be a draw.

Avatar of Lagomorph

Try this thread for size   https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/draw-or-win

Avatar of pogadl

Thank you all for your help. You are kind :-)

Avatar of TheEinari

6.7 a. During the game each player, having made his move on the chessboard, shall stop his own clock and start his opponent’s clock. A player must always be allowed to stop his clock. His move is not considered to have been completed until he has done so, unless the move that was made ends the game. (See the Articles 5.1.a, 5.2.a, 5.2.b, 5.2.c and 9.6)

5.2 b states that: The game is drawn when a position has arisen in which neither player can checkmate the opponent’s king with any series of legal moves. The game is said to end in a ‘dead position’. This immediately ends the game, provided that the move producing the position was legal

The move Bxf8 ends the game even though he didnt hit the clock since it leaves the position on the board to be unmate-able for both sides. Result is draw

Avatar of Daybreak57

That's why you should build the habit of pushing your clock after every move!  I have no idea why he decided to go to the bathroom at that point anyway.  I would have just made the last move and went.  But that is just me, who knows what someone else would be thinking at that paticular moment.  

 

Personally I think people who never ever play blitz and just play slow chess without the clock are missing out.  One of main things you should learn when playing chess is time management.  If you do not learn to manage your time, then you are essentially playing handicapped.  You are not cultivating a necessary skill in chess.  By only playing long games without the clock you are hurting your chess.  Of course if you don't want to ever play in tournaments that may be a different story, however, if you take 10-20 to make moves and the other guy is only taking a half a minute to make his, you are playing with a great advantage, and without a clock, there is not way to punish your long moves as there is no timer.

 

I play with someone that does not like to play with the clock.  I do not understand how he never learned to play with the clock, as he does participate in tournaments, however, none the less, he get's nervous when he plays with the clock, and also forgets to press the button after he makes his move all the time.  I explained to him that I do not want to play him without the clock because he takes so long to make his moves that it would be like he was playing with a time advantage if we played without the clock.  Since there is no punishment for making a 30 minute move, I just have to sit there waiting for him to make his move.  I do not need 30 minutes to make one single move.  Granted I am exaggerating just a tad, but this guy really does take a long time to make each of his moves, and the time adds up.  I remember losing to a simple combination because I got bored of his long moves while I took a half a second to make mine.  I just think it's unfair that I spend less than a minute to make most of my moves while he can sit there for 10 minutes on a single move and not have any downside to it.

 

He constantly harps that blitz isn't real chess, but I would say that playing without the clock, isn't real chess either.  Because part of real chess is managing your time.  If you do not learn to manage your time, or play a game where time doesn't matter, then you simply are not playing real chess, because part of the sport of it is the time.  In a real chess tournament, you play with a clock, wheither it be a long time control, or a short one.   You play with the clock.

 

So, in conclusion, when you play without a clock, you are only handicapping yourself, as demonstrated by the result of this game.  End of story.  If you built the habit of playing with the clock all the time, you would have pressed the clock automatically, you being, whoever the subject of this post is.  I personally do not even have to think about pressing the clock after making a move.  I guess that would be a bit different if your opponent just played a move and it was your turn and you didn't make your move.  That would be a different story, I can see how the call of nature would drive you to forget, however, I still think if you had played enough speed games with the clock you would have noticed that your timer was still running on your side.  Could be half and half.  But I believe you would have noticed.  Don't know for sure until you say something like, "I do play with the clock all the time, " then I would know.  Until then, this is just a guess, and all I have is a guess right now because I do not know the full story.

Avatar of Lagomorph
TheEinari wrote:

 

5.2 b states that: The game is drawn when a position has arisen in which neither player can checkmate the opponent’s king with any series of legal moves. The game is said to end in a ‘dead position’. This immediately ends the game, provided that the move producing the position was legal

The move Bxf8 ends the game even though he didnt hit the clock since it leaves the position on the board to be unmate-able for both sides. Result is draw

Best answer yet.

Avatar of pogadl

You are perfect! You should be arbiters. You nicely explain those rules.

Avatar of pogadl

I also have one question. If draw was offered incorrectly, ( player pushed clock) and after few seconds he just offered draw. After that he realised that he does not want draw so he called arbiter if he can cancel this offer. Arbiter decided that offering draw is valid. It doesnt matter if it was offered incorrectly and game ended- draw. Was it good decision?

Avatar of sohum3894

Position is not visible

Avatar of Pulpofeira

Pogadl: draw offers during opponent's turn are valid, although he/she could complain to arbiter, and of course can't be cancelled. If the opponent agrees it is a draw.

Avatar of pogadl

Thanks

Avatar of TerryMills

Good question; generated lots of interesting discussion; and Lagomorph gives the correct answer.

Avatar of Lagomorph
TerryMills wrote:

Good question; generated lots of interesting discussion; and Lagomorph gives the correct answer.

Very kind of you, but I think TheEinari gave a better answer in pointing out that as soon as Bxf8 was played on the board, the game was an immediate draw.

Avatar of Daybreak57

Nuh uh! j/k.  I am not familiar with fide rules as I don't play in tournaments just yet.  I plan to in the future though, at least I hope... sad.png

 

I am inclined to believe he went to the bathroom to gloat LMAO!  I mean why not just make the freaking move it was a draw next move...?