How would you rate the king

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kartikeya_tiwari
prawnestant wrote:
llama45 wrote:

Also the knight's total is 59 and king's 49.

The knight neither attacks "far more" or "far further" so I think you didn't actually do the exercise.

what? the king can  move to 24 squares and the knight can move to 35 and moving further has nothing to do with the amount of squares something attacks

Also to everyone, dont forget that when paired with its ability to jump over pieces (can't get blocked) and complex attack movement (everything else moves in the two axis directly or diagonal, knight doesnt.) that makes it incredible for forking attacks

Yup, i think people take this ability of knights for granted. Knights can immediately fight for the center at the start. Replacing knights with kings would just mean giving the side with the knight complete domination of the center since a king would be too slow to get behind and support it's pawns.  Knights just have more mobility 

IsraeliGal

in terms of pure attacking power and utility, the kings between a pawn and a minor piece in the early game. It gets outgunned by the minor pieces in every way, plus the heavy pieces are usually still on, so the king is basically just a versatile pawn. So material point of 2 in the opening and middle game is reasonable.

In the endgame the king becomes a lot more valuable. Even as the piece to protect, at every high level end game, the king is always important to activate, and whoever does it better generally has an advantage. It's probably worth close to a rook in the endgame, so something like 4-6.

 

goodbye27

according to my calculations, king is worth 2.7 points.

Wesley_Ge
llama45 wrote:

Ok well, when I'm disagreeing with practically every sentence of multiple people's posts it's time for me to leave.

 

I think you made really good points, and thanks for replying to my post!

IMO, kings in the opening are just better then pawns, and should not be developed because of its slow mobility. In the endgame, its able to cover lots of squares and its 360 mobility would allow it to move around easily. definately better then a knight which shines during mates and the midgame, but lacks defensive capibilities at the end.

NilsIngemar

My king? Harassed and hen pecked.

kartikeya_tiwari
Soniasthetics wrote:

in terms of pure attacking power and utility, the kings between a pawn and a minor piece in the early game. It gets outgunned by the minor pieces in every way, plus the heavy pieces are usually still on, so the king is basically just a versatile pawn. So material point of 2 in the opening and middle game is reasonable.

In the endgame the king becomes a lot more valuable. Even as the piece to protect, at every high level end game, the king is always important to activate, and whoever does it better generally has an advantage. It's probably worth close to a rook in the endgame, so something like 4-6.

 

I completely agree that king should be two points in the early game. However i think calling the king as good as a rook in the endgame is very exaggerated . The king does not even come close to the mobility of the rooks and having a king vs a rook would surely give the rook a very large advantage. 
In my opinion, in the endgame kings, just like knights, would be useful if the game is concentrated at one part of the board. I honestly believe that having a bishop is far more valuable if there are split pawns at close to opposite ends of the board. Rook is obviously vastly, vastly superior to a king in every way in my opinion

NilsIngemar

Can you lose your king? Will you ever be up or down a king? If not, then why give it a value?

prawnestant
NilsIngemar wrote:

Can you lose your king? Will you ever be up or down a king? If not, then why give it a value?

Yes and yes. IF:THEN not fulfilled 

GMchrissama
Unlimited I guess
XavisDOS

I would say 2.5

NilsIngemar

You can be down a king during the game?

Wesley_Ge
NilsIngemar wrote:

You can be down a king during the game?

Im talking hypothetically and objectively speaking as a piece how good would it be. With no check and checkmate rules of cource

TenThousandDays

One thing that no one's mentioned yet is that a King and Rook can checkmate an enemy King. A Rook and minor piece can't checkmate an enemy King without help. In close quarters Kings are much stronger than minor pieces because they can easily cover all of the squares around them. Because of this I would give the King a value of 3.5 - 4.

NilsIngemar

How many points is a pawn worth?

MrJoe45
Kings are not in this country
MrJoe45
The new year to be able to make more money than to give them their lives
NilsIngemar

Is this thread a discussion of relative king strength in chess or chess variants?

NilsIngemar

According to prawnestant, this thread is in the wrong forum. Since the king is being redefined, this discussion is about a chrss variant. 

 

It needs to be moved to the chess variant forum.

TenThousandDays

It's not a discussion about chess variants but about the relative value of the King when used as a fighting piece.

NilsIngemar

I tried to.explain that to him, but he had nothing of it.