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I feel that I deserve a higher rating

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TheBigDecline
FN_Perfect_Idiot wrote:
Frootloop2 wrote:
FN_Perfect_Idiot wrote:
Maximus99 wrote:

I don't agree with you, if you want your rating to be up.....simple solution is to win more games....if you are that good but can't win a game....I'm happy with my rating... 700 for now.

I see what your saying, and I don't disagree but, what about anomalies where someone might keep losing to people that are clearly worse than them. If you look at the "bad luck" spectrum they would be found on the edge of it.

The point is the solution is obvious yes, but not simple (apart from artificially adjusting my rating to correct for skew).

You can't lose to someone and be clearly better than them. The game of chess doesn't have any inherent luck built into it. It's not like poker where your opponent can get a royal flush and there's nothing you can do. There is no luck in the game rules. The only way for you to lose is to play worse moves than they do, and by playing worse moves than they do you cannot be clearly better: you must be worse.

Mr Chessexplained would entirely disagree with you. Of course there is luck in chess.

I have 2 questions: May you please provide us with a source where he said this, and: What actually does the "FN" stand for in FN_Perfect_Idiot? 

335394862

fn stands for farting nomination!

blueemu
FN_Perfect_Idiot wrote:

Is it free? Thats also a serious amount of effort :P I'll try it out for a bit.

In addition to studying tactical puzzles, a quick course on Model Mates (Corridor, Smothered, Epaulette, Morphy, Paulsen, Anderssen, Lolli, Greco, Philidor, etc) and some endgame study would help a lot. Learning how to read the Pawn structure will also give your play a big boost... you are less likely to choose the wrong middle-game plan if you can understand what the Pawns are trying to tell you.

Kossarion
FN_Perfect_Idiot wrote:
Frootloop2 wrote:
FN_Perfect_Idiot wrote:
Maximus99 wrote:

I don't agree with you, if you want your rating to be up.....simple solution is to win more games....if you are that good but can't win a game....I'm happy with my rating... 700 for now.

I see what your saying, and I don't disagree but, what about anomalies where someone might keep losing to people that are clearly worse than them. If you look at the "bad luck" spectrum they would be found on the edge of it.

The point is the solution is obvious yes, but not simple (apart from artificially adjusting my rating to correct for skew).

You can't lose to someone and be clearly better than them. The game of chess doesn't have any inherent luck built into it. It's not like poker where your opponent can get a royal flush and there's nothing you can do. There is no luck in the game rules. The only way for you to lose is to play worse moves than they do, and by playing worse moves than they do you cannot be clearly better: you must be worse.

Mr Chessexplained would entirely disagree with you. Of course there is luck in 

blueemu
TheBigDecline wrote:

What actually does the "FN" stand for in FN_Perfect_Idiot? 

FIDE Noob. I invented the title for him. You can find my post a page or two back in the thread.

TheBigDecline
blueemu wrote:
TheBigDecline wrote:

What actually does the "FN" stand for in FN_Perfect_Idiot? 

FIDE Noob. I invented the title for him. You can find my post a page or two back in the thread.

I like it! Laughing 

too bad it's never going to appear in red letters!

FN_Perfect_Idiot

Firstly, go watch the chessexplained videos or ask him. Luck is a theme that comes up many times. And while you may not agree with me on some other points this is something that is highly frustrating as a blitz and bullet player. Someone 500 points below you will play a brilliant/lucky move and they have no idea why they played it but it changes the course of the game. Chess has too large a gametree to calculate entirely so until it can be calculated luck will always play a part. 

blueemu: I'm not some kind of indian tracker that can read the landscape. How do I read pawn structure?

FN_Perfect_Idiot
TheBigDecline wrote:
blueemu wrote:
TheBigDecline wrote:

What actually does the "FN" stand for in FN_Perfect_Idiot? 

FIDE Noob. I invented the title for him. You can find my post a page or two back in the thread.

I like it!  

too bad it's never going to appear in red letters!

Don't get me started on how badly I want those red letters!!!

blueemu
FN_Perfect_Idiot wrote:

blueemu: I'm not some kind of indian tracker that can read the landscape. How do I read pawn structure?

Basically, the same way that an Indian tracker reads the landscape. Pawns form the "terrain" of the chess-board.

Example:

A Pawn chain is a formation of Pawns strung out along a diagonal, so that each one guards the next "link" in the chain... such as b2/c3/d4/e5.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is very strong on one color (dark squares, in this example) but weak on the other color (light squares). So the Pawns in this case are trying to tell you to KEEP a Pawn on a2, next to the base of your chain, and to ADVANCE a Pawn to f5, next to the head of your chain. Those two additional Pawns will cover the weak light squares at both ends of your chain. Since you will be advancing a Pawn to f5, that naturally leads to a King's side attack... so in effect, the b2/c3/d4/e5 Pawn chain is trying to tell you: "Attack on the King's side, defend on the Queen's dide without moving Pawns".

FN_Perfect_Idiot
blueemu wrote:
FN_Perfect_Idiot wrote:

blueemu: I'm not some kind of indian tracker that can read the landscape. How do I read pawn structure?

Basically, the same way that an Indian tracker reads the landscape. Pawns form the "terrain" of the chess-board.

Example:

A Pawn chain is a formation of Pawns strung out along a diagonal, so that each one guards the next "link" in the chain... such as b2/c3/d4/e5. It is very strong on one color (dark squares, in this example) but weak on the other color (light squares). So the Pawns in this case are trying to tell you to KEEP a Pawn on a2, next to the base of your chain, and to ADVANCE a Pawn to f5, next to the head of your chain. Those two additional Pawns will cover the weak light squares at both ends of your chain. Since you will be advancing a Pawn to f5, that naturally leads to a King's side attack... so in effect, the b2/c3/d4/e5 Pawn chain is trying to tell you: "Attack on the King's side, defend on the Queen's dide without moving Pawns".

Can you post an example?

blueemu
FN_Perfect_Idiot wrote:

Can you post an example?

Post or PM (Private Message)?

FN_Perfect_Idiot

PM is fine.

Frootloop2

The rules of chess have no luck in them. There is no dice roll, no shuffled deck. There is only the quality of your moves vs theirs. If I guessed randomly every single move but somehow it always ended up being houdini's 1st choice. I would never lose a game. I would be the best player in the world. I would be the best at winning chess games. It doesn't matter if I understand why the move is good, only that I played it. Having understanding or knowledge are not the same as the ability to win chess games. The only thing that effects the ability to win chess games is the moves you play. It doesn't matter whether I understand the position deeply or if I daydream and pick the first move I see. I would still be the best.

FN_Perfect_Idiot

You said "The game of chess doesn't have any inherent luck built into it."

I say it does.

Your scenario of luck is playing a game where every move is better than the opponent. You are confusing statistically impossible with luck. Often games are decided by only 1 move. This can be a good move, somethimes this is by design, sometimes it is not. If not I consider this a lucky move, that gives enough advantage to win the game.

I also say luck is statistically highly probable. I believe even more highly probable than skill. Therefore most games are won by luck not design.

Frootloop2

Before arguing about luck in chess, we must first agree on how we are measuring skill. The only objective measure of ability in chess is results. You can't play better and lose. You can't play worse and win. Other notions of skill are subjective, nearly impossible to precisely quantify, and  do not relate as directly to winning chess games. Nothing can relate as directly, since results = winning chess games.

Once you see that the only relevent judge of skill is in the eyes of the rules of chess, (The rules of the game itself and not the people playing it. The actual rules of how the pieces move and the win-conditions. These rules have no luck)  it is clear that playing good moves is all that matters to skill, and how the move is thought up, by chance or by knowledge, is irrelevent. The game rules treat them equally.

AndyClifton

Brilliantly circular!

blueemu

On several occasions, I have completely overlooked an apparently strong move by my opponent... and then found that I have an excellent answer to that tactic. I can only describe this as luck, since neither my opponent's threat nor the move that I parried it with was foreseen even one move in advance.

Example:


Wouldn't you call that luck?

SneckoSnek

I don't think artificially increasing everyone's ratings are going to make anyone feel better, because ratings are a measure of how you are in comparison to everyone else; if everyone's better, then your rating is the same as it was before.

For instance, I know why my rating is so mediocre. For one, it's because I don't play too much chess, but for another, it's because I blunder a ridiculous amount for a player of my level, no matter how much I study the theory. And I personally wouldn't feel better at all if my rating were 1800 rather than 1300ish, because I would know I don't deserve, and also because everyone else is higher too. Some people are just naturally gifted at chess, and it wouldn't make me feel better to know that my rating is artificially inflated to match my effort just because that effort isn't paying off as much as I think it should.

falcogrine

31. b5!! Most awesome move I've ever seen. Amusing, effective, and brilliant!

blueemu
falcogrine wrote:

31. b5!! Most awesome move I've ever seen. Amusing, effective, and brilliant!

My reason for posting the game wasn't to show off my non-existent leet skillz, though... it was to illustrate the point that some games are won by skill, others by luck.

It's hard to attribute my 19. ... Nd4 move to skill, when I hadn't even considered the possibility that my opponent might play 19. Nxg5. The move was simply a lucky find.