Is Carlsen the new Nakamura?

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MickeyDeadGuys

Carlson: simply the best.  Your observation is interesting, but he’s defended his championship twice, and the next one is his to lose, meaning if he plays to his potential, he’s going to retain his crown.

macer75
FBloggs wrote:
macer75 wrote:
FBloggs wrote:

There's no question that Carlsen has always had Nakamura's number.  I don't think any other top tier GM has fared as poorly against Carlsen in classical.  Nakamura is still one of the very best speed players in the world but you would never know it when he plays Carlsen.

There is one: Carlsen is 6 out of 6 in classical against Pavel Eljanov. That's 6 wins, 0 draws, 0 losses.

If you include rapid and blitz, Eljanov's score percentage-wise improves slightly, as Carlsen's total score becomes +10-1=2.

Nakamura is ranked 8th and Eljanov 38th.  I don't consider someone ranked 38th to be top tier.  But regardless, Carlsen has played many more classical games against Nakamura.

Eljanov has been ranked as high as 6th in the past, and in Mar. 2016 he was 11th. He definitely hasn't had as good a career as Nakamura, but he's been a better player for much of his career than his current ranking would suggest.

FBloggs
macer75 wrote:

Eljanov has been ranked as high as 6th in the past, and in Mar. 2016 he was 11th. He definitely hasn't had as good a career as Nakamura, but he's been a better player for much of his career than his current ranking would suggest.

Fair enough.  The name wasn't familiar so I checked the FIDE list.

Debistro

That Speed Chess match was painful to watch. Naka collapsed psychologically in the bullet when he realized Carlsen was too far ahead and just gave up by rage-resigning. But if one thing stands out, Carlsen sucks at Chess960. He has always lost that portion. I can't say Carlsen is still the best at Bullet, because as mentioned, Naka collapsed psychologically by the time the Bullet came on. If Naka had kept up with him in Blitz, then the Bullet may have been a different story.

Debistro

And I think Chess.com has a problem writing the final report for the Final, because that is exactly what happened. Naka looked like he wanted to quit by the time the Bullet portion came up. "Rage resigning". He has never played bullet that bad ever, just moving for the sake of moving ;)

FBloggs

It's clear that Nakamura doesn't play well against Carlsen. The reason is probably psychological. Considering his poor results against the champion (I believe just a single win in many games), Nakamura likely feels a lot of pressure and that hurts his game. Carlsen is the stronger player but the difference in strength doesn't explain the one-sidedness of their games against each other. I was surprised that Karjakin was able to finish the 12 classical games tied with Carlsen in the last championship match. I think Nakamura (8th) is better than Karjakin (14th) but I can't imagine Nakamura being tied with Carlsen after even 6 games, never mind 12.  Based on their history, I would expect Carlsen to win that match walking away.

WestofHollywood

I was never that strong of a player, but had a long "career" of playing over-the-board chess and observing. In my humble opinion the keys to tournament chess are quick sight of the board (as far as calculation), intuition (i.e. pattern recogniton), and fighting spirit. In other words being able to find at least a decent to good move quickly and having the will to keep doing it over and over again. Far and away Carlsen is currently the best at this. He is an absolute beast at faster time controls. But paradoxically he is less effective (relatively speaking!!) at slower time controls because his opponent has more time to neutralize him, especially in the computer preparation world we live in now. Carlsen's elite opponents have enough time to frequently hold their games (and ocassionally win) against Carlsen but would have little chance in an extended blitz/bullet match.

fabelhaft

"Nowadays, while he is still the favorite in every tournament in which he plays, he is by no means a prohibitive favorite, as his performances over the past year have demonstrated"

"Nowadays" would have to be limited to 2017 though. From late 2015 through all of 2016 he won every classical event he played, London, Qatar, Tata, Norway, Bilbao, plus a title match. But it's obvious that 2017 was quite a bad year with Carlsen's standards. It was a bit as if everything that had gone his way in some previous events went the other way this time. Another year risking too much against Rapport in Tata could have worked, and he hadn't missed that win against MVL in Sinquefield, and won that game he eventually lost against Nepo in London. Then it could have been four first places instead of one. But then he of course could have lost games he won, too.

As for Carlsen being the new Nakamura, I don't know about that one. If Kasparov was the new Ivkov, maybe :-)

Debistro

Carlsen seems to take speed chess very seriously, and obviously was elated to be world blitz champ again. Which augurs well for all the fans of online speed chess. When the world champ himself thinks speed chess is important, that's strong validation for you, if you only play blitz or bullet online... ;)

sammy_boi
macer75 wrote:

Is Carlsen the new Nakamura?

Your mom is the new Nakamura.

fabelhaft

"paradoxically he is less effective (relatively speaking!!) at slower time controls because his opponent has more time to neutralize him, especially in the computer preparation world we live in now"

Yes, it isn't easy to win games nowadays against very strong opponents with good prep and lots of time on the clock. And if one tries too hard to avoid draws at all cost one can easily lose, as in the game Carlsen lost against Karjakin in the title match. He also took lots of risks for example against Adams in London, but then it paid off.

Over the last year Carlsen has 312 games listed at Chessgames.com, Fischer has less than 200 over his last five active years if one includes exhibitions and blitz. Of course more rapid and blitz in Carlsen's case, but still, the top players are extremely active nowadays. Not easy to stay on top the way Carlsen has for eight years as rather clear #1 on the rating list.

macer75
Debistro wrote:

That Speed Chess match was painful to watch. Naka collapsed psychologically in the bullet when he realized Carlsen was too far ahead and just gave up by rage-resigning. But if one thing stands out, Carlsen sucks at Chess960. He has always lost that portion. I can't say Carlsen is still the best at Bullet, because as mentioned, Naka collapsed psychologically by the time the Bullet came on. If Naka had kept up with him in Blitz, then the Bullet may have been a different story.

Funny you should say that... I was just about to create a thread today that - well, I won't give anything away just now. I'll post a link to the thread when I've created it.

macer75
sammy_boi wrote:
macer75 wrote:
Is Carlsen the new Nakamura?

Your mom is the new Nakamura.

OOOOOHHHHHH!!!!!!! What a sick someback!

ArgoNavis

Carlsen has become faster but less effective...Has anybody thought about how having a girlfriend might have played a role in this transformation? But most importantly, is she also affected by Carlsen's speed, y'know what I mean, wink wink nudge nudge?

 

 

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/carlsen-s-girlfriend-and-endless-source-of-worry-for-chess-fans

 

macer75
macer75 wrote:
Debistro wrote:

That Speed Chess match was painful to watch. Naka collapsed psychologically in the bullet when he realized Carlsen was too far ahead and just gave up by rage-resigning. But if one thing stands out, Carlsen sucks at Chess960. He has always lost that portion. I can't say Carlsen is still the best at Bullet, because as mentioned, Naka collapsed psychologically by the time the Bullet came on. If Naka had kept up with him in Blitz, then the Bullet may have been a different story.

Funny you should say that... I was just about to create a thread today that - well, I won't give anything away just now. I'll post a link to the thread when I've created it.

Here you go!

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/how-bad-is-carlsen-at-960

LarrattGHP9

Nakamura has been bullet king for a long time, but at 1'0. 1'1 is a different animal. It allows you to et that extra second of thought into the position and doesnt make it as much of a time scramble.

 

Carlsen even at 1'1 will hardly makes any mistakes which is why Naka finds it so hard to beat him.

 

There are a few reasons why Carlsen is better at speed chess:

 

- He's a monster in endgames unlike anyone on earth, he plays them like a computer and it makes all the difference between Naka beating some other top 10 guy and losing to Carlsen. Carlsen simply brings another level, which is crushing in all aspects to his opponent, positionally, psychologically, everything. How many endgames did Carlsen win yesterday I lost count.

 

-Carlsen goes into god mode when he's in a losing position, eg in that game where he blundered the bisbop on the queenside, but still was able to continue with the pawn push and knight was impressive, its like in desperate mode his brain finds all the impossible moves. Very impressive.

 

- Psychologically he's a juggernaught. How hard is it to play against someone stronger than you? Its virtually impossible, I wonder if Naka lost confidence watching Carlsen demolish everyone in the world blitz?

It's funny how confident Carlsen is in his game, I mean its not even close with Naka, he just brushed Naka's bullet reputation aside and just knows he owns this guy at all time controls.

 

Though would like to see a 1'0 true bullet match between the two.

 

Carlsen was always the best, he just needed a little time to prove it, Naka on the other had was always playing online, had ample time to build up a formidable reputation, Carlsen on the other hand hardly ever played.

 

And it was just a matter of time before Carlsen proved himself, of more or less confirmed what everyone already knew. 

 

He's the new absolute king of speed chess both OTB and online. It's not even a question anymore.

 

I honestly cant see anyone ever beating him. Maybe in all of history too, in speed chess that is.

 

There was a blitz otb match between the two after the 2010 World Blitz, which Carlsen won 24.5 -16.5 something like that. Not everyone knows about that, but it shows that even back then Carlsen was beating him in speed chess.

The_Phenominal

Carlsen will never go down to 2nd spot

macer75
The_Phenominal wrote:

Carlsen will never go down to 2nd spot

That'll have to depend on when he retires.