Forums

Is Vishy Anand the greatest rapid player of all time?

Sort:
macer75
SmyslovFan wrote:

Rapid chess is a recent development. That discounts pretty much everyone before Karpov. 

Some candidates for greatest rapid player of all time include:

Anand, Kasparov, and Carlsen. I'm not sure there's anyone else to consider!

I don't know about Kasparov. His results in rapid according to the article do not look particularly impressive. But yes, your point about the recency of rapid is certainly valid.

Also, why are so many people bringing up Ivanchuk? The guy won 1 rapid championship, and that's it.

Ullu_Ka_Pattha

Anand is the greatest rapid player as of today, may be Carlsen will overtake him one day, may be not. The current system of world rapid championships started only in 2012 and Anand didn't play the 2012 and 2013 editions. In 2014 and this edition he has been unbeaten. This is a declined version of Vishy and still across 2 editions in such a tough field he hasn't lost even once in 30 games !!! In the 90s and early 2000s his reputation in rapid was fearsome, he was practically unbeatable in Mainz, from 1997 to 2009 he was surpassed by only 2 players Kasparov and Aronian. Remaining times he won very comfortably against some great players of that era. It is unfortunate that his speed skills are downplayed these days, considering how good he was in his prime. In blitz it is a different matter altogether, Vishy is still a heavyweight but IMO there are a few who have been even better eg Carlsen, Tal, Grischuk, Kasparov, Fischer etc. He is still a legit top 10 of all time in blitz just like classical but in rapid format he is undisputed no 1. 

macer75
greekgift_221b wrote:

Well in classical Fischer is the best, and then Kasparov and Carlsen.

I would say 1. definitely Kasparov, 2. arguably Fischer, 3 and beyond... take your pick. But we can have that conversation all day.

Ullu_Ka_Pattha

Anand's results post 2012 seem to have clouded people's judgement, especially w.r.t his speed chess prowess. It is never fair to judge a player's overall career based on his fag end, this holds true across all sports and games. Vishy has been so inconsistent post 2012 and this problem has amplified the last 2 years. In St Louis rapid and blitz he was unrecognizable, same in 2016 World Rapid and Blitz Championship. But on occasions he has shown signs of his past brilliance eg this event, 2016 Champions Showdown, Zurich a couple of years...... The Anand that we saw make an appearance this event was the regular Anand of the 90s era, now wonder his peers and chess experts above a certain age keep on raving about Anand's speed in his young days. I have read interviews of top players like Geller, Nunn, Lautier,  Kramnik, Topalov, Shipov etc hailing him as the greatest rapid player of all time, so OP you aren't alone in thinking along similar lines. 

Bad_Dobby_Fischer
macer75 wrote:
greekgift_221b wrote:

Well in classical Fischer is the best, and then Kasparov and Carlsen.

I would say 1. definitely Kasparov, 2. arguably Fischer, 3 and beyond... take your pick. But we can have that conversation all day.

fisher is the first, he didn't have computers and was pure genius

SmyslovFan

I'd bet on Magnus in any rapid match against Anand, and I am guessing that even the most ardent Anand fan would too.

Ullu_Ka_Pattha
SmyslovFan wrote:

I'd bet on Magnus in any rapid match against Anand, and I am guessing that even the most ardent Anand fan would too.

Against today's Anand, yes. Against prime Anand I highly doubt. 

SmyslovFan

Ok, in what years was Anand in his prime as a rapid player?

varelse1
SmyslovFan wrote:

Ok, in what years was Anand in his prime as a rapid player?

Back in the 90's, he often used to play his normal OTB games in under 30 minutes. Holding his own against the likes of Kasparov, Karpov, Short, and Ivanchuk.

SmyslovFan

I think he'd disagree with that, @Varelse. He is close to his best right now, and was probably at his very best around 2005. But I'd like to hear from other Anand fans to see if they can come up with a consensus. Then we can compare his best to Carlsen's current form. 

 

Here's a hint: nobody has come close to Carlsen's overall rapid play in history. Anand has won a bunch of titles tho, and deserves to be in the conversation. 

Ullu_Ka_Pattha
SmyslovFan wrote:

Ok, in what years was Anand in his prime as a rapid player?

1998-2008 will be a fair estimate. He started declining overall after that.

The_Phenominal

JayeshSinhaChess wrote:

I don't know but in light of this screenshot from wikipedia on rapid world championship winners, I am inclined to believe he is.

 

Feel free to disagree if you must.

 

null

Add the latest one to the list. Also look at the runners up column in Vishy' wins - Kramnik, Karpov, Kasparov, Carlsen, Shirov, Polgar, Grishuk, Levon - basically the who's who of Chess.

 

I will give this question one hell yes.

 

As far as greatest Rapid players go, Vishy is #1, then lots of places after that are empty and whoever is after Vishy gets in at #12.

 

oh my god! He deserves Bharat Ratna ! if not he is Bharat Ratna for me look it is Tiranga flagging in the list😊👍 proud!!!

fabelhaft

Apart from Mainz and Rapid World Championships there is also the Amber tournament, and Anand usually did extremely well in the rapid section there too:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amber_chess_tournament

macer75
fabelhaft wrote:

Apart from Mainz and Rapid World Championships there is also the Amber tournament, and Anand usually did extremely well in the rapid section there too:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amber_chess_tournament

Oh god... that wiki format... The original one is so much better:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amber_chess_tournament

josephyossi

help me out [please don't promote your posts in other topics -- VP]

Ullu_Ka_Pattha

So based on that wiki article he won Amber rapid 9 times. Also read from a chessbase article that he won Leon rapid 9 consecutive times (https://en.chessbase.com/post/anand-continues-to-win-ciudad-de-leon) , may be more (double digits) if chessgames sources are to be believed, there is no dedicated consolidated article about Leon. Similarly there is a rapid event in Corsica which he has won more than 10 times (7 consecutive at one stage), so clearly in terms of number of titles Carlsen has a lot of catching up to do. 

riagan

Anand is world rapid chess champion 2017 now. THE END

macer75
greekgift_221b wrote:
josephyossi wrote:

help me out [please don't promote your posts in other topics -- VP]

haha

I'm ok with him promoting his posts in other topics in my threads, mods.

MitSud
Vishy Anand is probably the best rapid player of all time, but I wouldn’t bet against Carlsen in a match format in any time control, unless he’s off form again. Look at how he crushed Ding Liren. But Anand is certainly the best rapid player ever.
JayeshSinhaChess

Vishy now is clearly not the force he was. So Carlsen today would hold the edge I agree. But Vishy at his best, could take out anyone.

 

Also as the comm. said during the tie-breaks against Feedosev, Vishy has won more events than Feedosov has participated in. Goes for nearly any young player today.