Middle game with queen vs 2 minor pieces

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mazar23

Hi there,

I always had that nagging question in my head: for professionnal chess players, barring obvious short term tactics on the board, it's pretty clear that in the long run a queen is better than two minor pieces (2 bishops, 2 knighs or a bishop and a knight).

Also from conventional piece values it's obvious as 9>6.

However in practice in my amateur games (I have about 2000 on lichess which probably means I have ok amateur level) it rarely really materializes. In my games either me or my opponents when we are on the side with the 2 minor pieces end up have an ok game with chances to draw and win even if in theory this is a material disadvantage. Main reasons:

2 pieces can attack the same pawn/piece twice

the minor pieces are hard to dislodge especially when the opponent doesn't have any minor piece left and can simply harass the queen https://100001.onl/ .

So my question is: what are the general advice that we can give on the theoretically winning side to optimally exploit the full power of the queen and win against 2 minor pieces?

(I mean in typical positions with the same number of pawns/doubled/isolated/backwards/passed pawns, similar numbers of open files, and similar king safety on both sides, ie typical relatively solid middle game positions but where one side has a queen and the other 2 minor pieces)

Thanks in advance, I'm curious. I never feel comfortable converting to a point when I forced my opponent to exchange his queen against 2 of my minor pieces.

Vocaloid39

I've sacrificed my queen for 3 minor pieces in some games and won (also done this and lost in others too xD), but either side of it requires a lot of subtle technique to make use of. 

However, the queen for only two minor pieces should almost always be better for the side with the queen (extra material 9>6 like you said). Maybe try not to think of it as the queen against those pieces as much as just doing the normal things when you are up in material. You can still seek exchanges of equal value to get closer to an endgame and your queen can still provoke weaknesses (usually by attacking the base of pawn chains). The problem with the two minor pieces is that by protecting each other, they also restrict their ability to move. The queen is more free to roam. 

If you are already into an endgame (or close to it), then don't forget about forcing zugswang or creating plans to escort your own remaining pawns to promotion. The queen can help support your pawns advancing, but the minor pieces can't support their own pawns as easily because whenever a minor piece moves, it probably gives up connection with the other minor piece and makes them both susceptible to tactics like the queen forking them.

It just takes practice like anything else, but good luck

tygxc

@1

A queen is just stronger than 2 minor pieces. The queen can create tactical threats that win one of the minor pieces.



thegreatchessplayerrzz
tygxc wrote:

@1

A queen is just stronger than 2 minor pieces. The queen can create tactical threats that win one of the minor pieces.

The position you posted is a win for white, although it is very hard.

thegreatchessplayerrzz

A queen is way better than 2 minor pieces. By protecting each other, the minors restrict their ability to move.
Here is what to do if you win your opponent's queen for 2 minor pieces:

  1. Trade pawns, but be careful not to get all the pawns on the same side of the board, as this increases the probability of a draw.
  2. Trade pawns. If your opponent still has their rooks they can attack stuff but if they only have the 2 pieces the side with the queen will have a huge advantage
  3. Always look for opportunities to sac your rook for their 2 pieces
  4. Look for opportunities to sac your rook for one of their pieces
  5. Do not lock up the pawn chains
  6. Try to create a passed pawn
  7. Try to open up their king. If their king is exposed and they try to gain up on your pawns their will probably be some kind of fork
thegreatchessplayerrzz

Here is how to win with a queen and three pawns vs a knight and three pawns:

The winning methods for queen vs two knights with pawns are

  • overloading the knights which can only defend a limited front
  • king invasion
  • zugzwang
  • looking for opportunities to sac the queen for 2 knights if the resulting pawn endgame is winning
  • not trading all the pawns