Millionaire Chess 3

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Kingandmate
mdinnerspace wrote:

I played many years of table tennis tournaments at the 2000 rating level. Began at 1200 just as in chess. Went to several National Championships and was lucky enough to win a few. How much money did I win ? $0.00. Alot of prestige and trophies, great memories and new friends. The pros would make small cash payouts, but they we all had sponsors. World wide table tennis is often said to be the most popular sport in the world (Chinese players and is huge in Europe) without paying amatures a penny, while sustaining 1000's of professionals . Food for thought.

For $100 I could enter 4 different sections and a doubles event. Winners took home trophies and pics in magazines. Nearly 1000 players and that's quite enough money to put on a great event and payout a few dozen top prizes.

 

Think about the difference between chess and most sports. In most sports, spectators and fans fund most of the sport, whether in the form of live events, TV broadcast revenues, pay-per-view, merchandise, etc. This is how it is possible, in a sport like table tennis, that professionals can earn a living while amateurs make close to nothing. Chess is COMPLETELY different. In chess, there are hardly any sponsors, it is not on TV at all, and there is almost no such thing as spectators paying to watch live chess events. In chess, it is mostly the *class players* who fund the sport/game and help the professionals make a living (through paying entry fees at tournaments, getting coaching, etc.). But you and others think it's unfair or inappropriate for class players to earn any significant prizes playing chess. Hmm... Some food for thought.

mdinnerspace

Table tennis professionals are supported by sponsors, (clothing, eguipment etc.) Very few events are televised, they get preserved on tape for viewing later. Spectators are not charged any admission. There are no "broadcasting rights". Some of the comparisons you make don't hold water. Your talking of team sports, not individual sports, as running, swimming, table tennis, etc.

Spectators and fans are not what support these endevers. It is well organized events that have survived because of good management and support of the players.

Diakonia
Kingandmate wrote:
mdinnerspace wrote:

I played many years of table tennis tournaments at the 2000 rating level. Began at 1200 just as in chess. Went to several National Championships and was lucky enough to win a few. How much money did I win ? $0.00. Alot of prestige and trophies, great memories and new friends. The pros would make small cash payouts, but they we all had sponsors. World wide table tennis is often said to be the most popular sport in the world (Chinese players and is huge in Europe) without paying amatures a penny, while sustaining 1000's of professionals . Food for thought.

For $100 I could enter 4 different sections and a doubles event. Winners took home trophies and pics in magazines. Nearly 1000 players and that's quite enough money to put on a great event and payout a few dozen top prizes.

 

Think about the difference between chess and most sports. In most sports, spectators and fans fund most of the sport, whether in the form of live events, TV broadcast revenues, pay-per-view, merchandise, etc. This is how it is possible, in a sport like table tennis, that professionals can earn a living while amateurs make close to nothing. Chess is COMPLETELY different. In chess, there are hardly any sponsors, it is not on TV at all, and there is almost no such thing as spectators paying to watch live chess events. In chess, it is mostly the *class players* who fund the sport/game and help the professionals make a living (through paying entry fees at tournaments, getting coaching, etc.). But you and others think it's unfair or inappropriate for class players to earn any significant prizes playing chess. Hmm... Some food for thought.

Therein lies the problem.  Chess is a niche sport/interest.  You arent going to see ESPN covering chess events, except maybe the world championship if its held in the US, but i doubt it.  And lets be honest about chess.  Unless you play, youre not goig to want to watch it in person, or on TV.  What company is going to want to throw money away on that?  

Yes chess works in european countries because it is part of the culture in many countries.  In the US, youre considered a "nerd", and not cool.  Want a different reason why chess wont work in the US on a big time level?  Take a lok at the microcosm of "chess players" on chess.com.  Post after post on cheating...time lag...sandbagging..."I lost my points"...Hell people cant even find the  Help & Support link at the bottom of the page, let alone support big time chess.  

Kingandmate
@mdinnerspace:

Are you speaking of table tennis in the U.S.? I'm sure in countries like China, events are televised. In the U.S., I honestly don't know how professionals make a living. Despite what you point out, what I stated about chess is still all correct and valid. Class players want to be recognized and rewarded occasionally for supporting and funding chess. MCO is a rare event that actually does this for class players.
mdinnerspace

Take a look at the major marathon and tri-athalon events. Thousands and thousands enter, often traveling great distances just to participate. Only a handful of professionals will win $. Spectators watch for free. Organizers can put on a top notch event with low entry fees and make a profit at the same time. Why should chess at the amature level be any different?

Well, of course I know the answer, just don't agree with it.

Diakonia
mdinnerspace wrote:

Take a look at the major marathon and tri-athalon events. Thousands and thousands enter, often traveling great distances just to participate. Only a handful of professionals will win $. Spectators watch for free. Organizers can put on a top notch event with low entry fees and make a profit at the same time. Why should chess at the amature level be any different?

Well, of course I know the answer, just don't agree with it.

Corporate sponsorship also correct?

mdinnerspace

The big problem, and has been a problem for 35 years with never a solution is the sandbagger. Whether or not organizers can prevent them under the present rules, I do not know. What I do know is that some events do a better job of it than others, but no big money event is immune, despite what a promoter claims.

mdinnerspace

Ok, so a promoter puts up X amount of prize money and asks Y amount to enter and makes it perfectly clear the tournaments sole purpose is offering players the oppertunity to win a large payout. Fine. I get that. But what I also get is that it is not a LEVEL playing ground. Promoters will spin it otherwise. Some here say, it's their $ to lose and if their stupid enough to believe the hype, they deserve it. I beggining to agree.

Kingandmate
mdinnerspace wrote:

Take a look at the major marathon and tri-athalon events. Thousands and thousands enter, often traveling great distances just to participate. Only a handful of professionals will win $. Spectators watch for free. Organizers can put on a top notch event with low entry fees and make a profit at the same time. Why should chess at the amature level be any different?

Well, of course I know the answer, just don't agree with it.

 

Because chess isn't really a spectator sport and therefore has a lot of trouble attracting sponsors. The few past events that were able to get enough spectators/viewers, such as some of the past Kasparov tournaments or events, were able to get sponsors. But these are the exception.

Kingandmate
Diakonia wrote:
Kingandmate wrote:
mdinnerspace wrote:

I played many years of table tennis tournaments at the 2000 rating level. Began at 1200 just as in chess. Went to several National Championships and was lucky enough to win a few. How much money did I win ? $0.00. Alot of prestige and trophies, great memories and new friends. The pros would make small cash payouts, but they we all had sponsors. World wide table tennis is often said to be the most popular sport in the world (Chinese players and is huge in Europe) without paying amatures a penny, while sustaining 1000's of professionals . Food for thought.

For $100 I could enter 4 different sections and a doubles event. Winners took home trophies and pics in magazines. Nearly 1000 players and that's quite enough money to put on a great event and payout a few dozen top prizes.

 

Think about the difference between chess and most sports. In most sports, spectators and fans fund most of the sport, whether in the form of live events, TV broadcast revenues, pay-per-view, merchandise, etc. This is how it is possible, in a sport like table tennis, that professionals can earn a living while amateurs make close to nothing. Chess is COMPLETELY different. In chess, there are hardly any sponsors, it is not on TV at all, and there is almost no such thing as spectators paying to watch live chess events. In chess, it is mostly the *class players* who fund the sport/game and help the professionals make a living (through paying entry fees at tournaments, getting coaching, etc.). But you and others think it's unfair or inappropriate for class players to earn any significant prizes playing chess. Hmm... Some food for thought.

Therein lies the problem.  Chess is a niche sport/interest.  You arent going to see ESPN covering chess events, except maybe the world championship if its held in the US, but i doubt it.  And lets be honest about chess.  Unless you play, youre not goig to want to watch it in person, or on TV.  What company is going to want to throw money away on that?  

Yes chess works in european countries because it is part of the culture in many countries.  In the US, youre considered a "nerd", and not cool.  Want a different reason why chess wont work in the US on a big time level?  Take a lok at the microcosm of "chess players" on chess.com.  Post after post on cheating...time lag...sandbagging..."I lost my points"...Hell people cant even find the  Help & Support link at the bottom of the page, let alone support big time chess.  

 

Precisely. And this is exactly why MC advertises and structures its events the way it does. It's trying to attract a larger, more mainstream audience for chess, to get chess on TV, and to get sponsors. What works in Europe does not work in the U.S. presently because of the big difference in culture. MC is trying to change the chess image, culture, and paradigm in the U.S. (although obviously, this will take a lot of time and effort) so that chess becomes a more spectator-, TV-, and sponsor-friendly sport. If they are successful, that will mean that chess professionals will have a much easier time making a living (without relying on class players to financially support them), and some strong amateurs may actually be able to turn pro because of the increased income potential in chess.

mdinnerspace

Naka has a sponser in red bull. I am not aware of any one else that has their product endorsed by an elite player besides Carlson. Chess has a rough go of it not being a spectator "sport" for sure.

mdinnerspace

Offering huge payouts, way out of proportion to amatures is not a good paradigm. You are being altruistic using this arguement that it will further chess developement and increase the amount of players .This is just promotional "spin" again for a tournaments sole purpose is to make a profit. If it is successful, Ashley has already announced his intention for MC 4. Bigger prizes, higher entries and more profit.

Imo it is faulty logic, conceived without understanding the ""spirit" that will allow the game to grow. It is the American way... greed.

Kingandmate

One more quick point: We know there are THOUSANDS, if not hundreds of thousands, of chess players online who are NOT active members of U.S. Chess and who never play rated games over the board. Perhaps the reason these players don't play OTB and support U.S. Chess is that they don't find traditional tournaments very fun or attractive. One goal of MCO is to try to get some of these players to play OVER-THE-BOARD chess. Big prize money, whatever you might think about it, is one very good way of doing this! After these players find out how much fun it can be to play rated OTB chess (and some might even win some money), they might actually stick around and play more OTB tournaments, helping to grow the chess community. (Keep in mind that I am talking mostly about adult players, as junior players are well taken care of by the numerous scholastic programs in the U.S.)

Kingandmate
mdinnerspace wrote:

Offering huge payouts, way out of proportion to amatures is not a good paradigm. You are being altruistic using this arguement that it will further chess developement and increase the amount of players .This is just promotional "spin" again for a tournaments sole purpose is to make a profit. If it is successful, Ashley has already announced his intention fir MC 4. Bigger prizes, higher entries and more profit.

 

No, it is not. Please read and consider my arguments again. You are biased and dead set in your opinions, but that doesn't make you right about MC's motivations or "sole purpose".

JasonCarnage
Kingandmate wrote:

One more quick point: We know there are THOUSANDS, if not hundreds of thousands, of chess players online who are NOT active members of U.S. Chess and who never play rated games over the board. Perhaps the reason these players don't play OTB and support U.S. Chess is that they don't find traditional tournaments very fun or attractive. One goal of MCO is to try to get some of these players to play OVER-THE-BOARD chess. Big prize money, whatever you might think about it, is one very good way of doing this! After these players find out how much fun it can be to play rated OTB chess (and some might even win some money), they might actually stick around and play more OTB tournaments, helping to grow the chess community. (Keep in mind that I am talking mostly about adult players, as junior players are well taken care of by the numerous scholastic programs in the U.S.)

Yea, just like the hundreds of thousands players who came out of the woodwork for MC1 and MC2.

mdinnerspace

And you are not a promoter for MCO ? LOL

I'll eat my hat while you report me for "slander".

Kingandmate
JasonCarnage wrote:
Kingandmate wrote:

One more quick point: We know there are THOUSANDS, if not hundreds of thousands, of chess players online who are NOT active members of U.S. Chess and who never play rated games over the board. Perhaps the reason these players don't play OTB and support U.S. Chess is that they don't find traditional tournaments very fun or attractive. One goal of MCO is to try to get some of these players to play OVER-THE-BOARD chess. Big prize money, whatever you might think about it, is one very good way of doing this! After these players find out how much fun it can be to play rated OTB chess (and some might even win some money), they might actually stick around and play more OTB tournaments, helping to grow the chess community. (Keep in mind that I am talking mostly about adult players, as junior players are well taken care of by the numerous scholastic programs in the U.S.)

Yea, just like the hundreds of thousands players who came out of the woodwork for MC1 and MC2.

 

LOL. I said "some", not "all". And the high entry fee was a major barrier, as I stated previously.

mdinnerspace

@Kingandnate...And you are not a promoter for MCO ? LOL

I'll eat my hat while you report me for "slander".

mdinnerspace

Was only repeating mates threat that he has directed towards a few here. His posts most of the time quote almost word for word the promotion made by MCO newsletters. What does he expect? If you act and talk like a duck, you must be a puppy dog?

woton

mdinnerspace

Where has Ashley announced his intention to hold MC4?