Mourning the Demise of Descriptive Notation

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Avatar of forthepatterns

Why did FIDE stop recognising descriptive notation?

Given that the FIDE, used to recognise descriptive notation....

I am not looking for people telling me the advantages of algebraic notation.

What was the process that brought about the situation. The situation where I was away from chess for a long time, and the very language I used was now banned. 

What was the politics?

Avatar of NikkiLikeChikki
Speculation: it has to do with computers. Descriptive is less concise and more ambiguous. Computer programmers at the beginning were working with limited memory and you could describe a move with far far fewer characters, so they started using algebraic. Soon every just decided it was better. I mean the switch happened around 1980, so it makes sense
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Notation

Avatar of long_quach
forthepatterns wrote:

Why did FIDE stop recognising descriptive notation?

Given that the FIDE, used to recognise descriptive notation....

I am not looking for people telling me the advantages of algebraic notation.

What was the process that brought about the situation. The situation where I was away from chess for a long time, and the very language I used was now banned. 

What was the politics?

How about they change it because Algebraic has technical advantages over Descriptive?

Whether you like to hear it or not.

Avatar of long_quach
UrkedCrow wrote:
NikkiLikeChikki wrote:
Speculation: it has to do with computers. Descriptive is less concise and more ambiguous. Computer programmers at the beginning were working with limited memory and you could describe a move with far far fewer characters, so they started using algebraic. Soon every just decided it was better. I mean the switch happened around 1980, so it makes sense

Descriptive notation isn't ambiguous at all, it's very precise. It's also completely consistent between black and white. It's a shame that algebraic took over and annihilated the classical language of chess.

 

Precise to a machine is not "precise" to human errors.

Is that King's Knight or Queen's Knight?

Is that Queen's Knight 5 from Black or White's perspective?

Avatar of NikkiLikeChikki
As far as programmers go, it’s more ambiguous and requires additional information in order to disambiguate. For example a pawn capture in Descriptive would be "P x P". But that works only if that is the only pawn capture possible. If there are more than the file and rank must always be given "P(Q4) X P".

So when you’re programming, you constantly have to add additional terms to disambiguate. Algebraic is much more concise, never changes depending on context, and is far easier to program.

As I said, computers also were working with very little memory and every character mattered.

I’m not passing judgment here, I’m just saying that the rise of computers probably caused this. The OP asked why, and this is my guess as to the reason.
Avatar of StormCentre3

AN or algebraic notation was developed in 1737 by Phillip Stamma. 
Descriptive notation was used until 1980 after which it became largely discarded by FIDE by the far more practical algebraic. Descriptive is cumbersome and lends itself to far too many mistakes.

BTW - that advent of computers had nothing to do with FIDE only recognizing algebraic as being the single standard. Algebraic is universal.

Chess authors in publications and books began using the universal language which led to FIDE and other organizations recognizing it as the standard.

Avatar of long_quach
UrkedCrow wrote:

It's a shame that algebraic took over and annihilated the classical language of chess.

Chessmaster 6000 can convert from PGN to Descriptive, Algebraic, Long Algebraic, Co-ordinate, Figurine Algebraic or any combination.

If you're not used to Algebraic, you can train yourself on Battleship.

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BadBishopJones3 wrote:

AN or algebraic notation was developed in 1737 by Phillip Stamma. 
Descriptive notation was used until 1980 after which it became largely discarded in David if the far more practical algebraic. Descriptive is cumbersome and lends itself to far to many mistakes.

BTW - that advent of computers had nothing to do with FIDE only recognizing algebraic as being the single standard. Algebraic is universal.

Algebraic notation, just like Descriptive, had been around since at least the early Middle Ages as they were used in both Shatranj and Medieval Chess.  Some countries never embraced Descriptive at all. FIDE started requiring recording moves in Algebraic on July 1,1997.  

Avatar of long_quach
forthepatterns wrote:

Why did FIDE stop recognising descriptive notation?

Given that the FIDE, used to recognise descriptive notation....

I am not looking for people telling me the advantages of algebraic notation.

What was the process that brought about the situation. The situation where I was away from chess for a long time, and the very language I used was now banned

What was the politics?

It's not banned.

Noboby banned swords, Model T Fords, Commodore 64, AOL telephone dial up, the Pony Express, telegraphs, telegrams, analog TV (ok they do ban analog TV), LPs, cassette tapes, VHS tapes, Blockbuster videos, acid free paper, etc . . .

You get the idea.

Something better came along.

Avatar of StormCentre3

This auto correct phone app plays tricks ! I had to edit. Also added - it was chess authors in publications that started using the language that led to the change.

Avatar of NikkiLikeChikki
I doubt that the rise of computers had nothing to do with FIDE’s changes, though it is not the official reason.

Computers made algebraic more popular, and it was the popularity that caused the official change. FIDE just recognized the obvious: that the world had moved on from descriptive.

Nostalgia for descriptive notation is like nostalgia for imperial measures in almost every way.
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I have some books in descriptive and others in algebraic.

I grew up on descriptive.

Never even open the descriptive books anymore.

It's pretty much one or the other, and algebraic won, imho.

Avatar of long_quach
USAuPzlBxBob wrote:

Never even open the descriptive books anymore.

Descriptive notation books are being converted into Algebraic.

Avatar of long_quach
NikkiLikeChikki wrote:
Nostalgia for descriptive notation is like nostalgia for imperial measures in almost every way.

The Old Testament Bible cubits is still "handy" literally.

Measuring things by their relative length to your body is still useful if you don't have a ruler around.

Avatar of StormCentre3

No Nikki - the changes occurred in the early 8O’s before the general use of computers . It was publications- such as MCO and BCO that adopted the change. These opening books were everybody’s go to tools and read universally. Your assumption is incorrect. Every chess player owned either MCO or BCO which adapted algebraic.

Avatar of long_quach
BadBishopJones3 wrote:

No Nikki - the changes occurred in the early 8O’s before the general use of computers . It was publications- such as MCO and BCO that adopted the change. These opening books were everybody’s go to tool and read universally. Your assumption is incorrect. 

That's oral history. Not everything is 100%. And it can be corrected, like so.

But who is to say it is not correct in essence? That is what oral history is, correct in essence. Who is to say that greater mechanization lead to algebraic is not correct?

Avatar of long_quach
long_quach wrote:
BadBishopJones3 wrote:

No Nikki - the changes occurred in the early 8O’s before the general use of computers . It was publications- such as MCO and BCO that adopted the change. These opening books were everybody’s go to tool and read universally. Your assumption is incorrect. 

That's oral history. Not everything is 100%. And it can be corrected, like so.

But who is to say it is not correct in essence? That is what oral history is, correct in essence. Who is to say that greater mechanization lead to algebraic is not correct?

I was inside the FAA headquarters when they decided that all computers would change from longitudes and latitudes into radians as their base notation.

Avatar of StormCentre3

Because whatever mechanization is defined as - it did not lead to algebraic being adopted as the standard by players and publications. This happened before the general use of computers and the language used by them.

Avatar of long_quach
BadBishopJones3 wrote:

Because whatever mechanization is defined as - it did not lead to algebraic being adopted as the standard by players and publications. This happened before the general use of computers and the language used by them.

Mechanization is defined as using machines.