Nigel Short, age 44, and back to the top !

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goldendog
Reb wrote:

None of the world champions before Fischer broke 2700 and I just don't believe that every player today that is over 2700 are stronger than all of the world champions before Fischer, do you ?


 Not officially, no, but Elo did historical ratings and most of our favorite WCs made it to 2700. Not Alekhine though. Odd huh. Just 2695.

TheOldReb
goldendog wrote:
Reb wrote:

None of the world champions before Fischer broke 2700 and I just don't believe that every player today that is over 2700 are stronger than all of the world champions before Fischer, do you ?


 Not officially, no, but Elo did historical ratings and most of our favorite WCs made it to 2700. Not Alekhine though. Odd huh. Just 2695.


 Yes, very odd considering that Alekhine was one of the few WCs with a better than 70% lifetime score ! Fischer and Capablanca also had better than 70% career scores and I think they're all of the WCs that do. I might be forgetting one though...... hhmmmm  Interestingly, Paul Keres also had better than 70% career score.

master_in_panama

i played against him...he gave a simultan-show in panama! realy!

TheOldReb

Lasker also had better than 70% , so there are 4 WCs that had better than 70%.

goldendog

Where are you getting that? I need to bookmark a page for that stuff.

goldendog

Here's Elo's historical list (found online http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=1160)

  Last name First Country Born Rating
1 Capablanca Jose Cuba 1888 2725
2 Botvinnik Mikhail Soviet Union 1911 2720
3 Lasker Emanuel Germany/England 1868 2720
4 Tal Mikhail Latvia/USSR 1936 2700
5 Alekhine Alexander Russia/France 1892 2690
6 Morphy Paul United States 1837 2690
7 Smyslov Vasily Soviet Union 1921 2690
8 Petrosian Tigran Soviet Union 1929 2680
9 Reshevsky Samuel Poland/USA 1911 2680
10 Spassky Boris Soviet Union 1937 2680
11 Bronstein David Soviet Union 1924 2670
12 Keres Paul Estonia/USSR 1916 2670
13 Korchnoi Viktor Switzerland 1931 2665
14 Fine Reuben United States 1914 2660
15 Geller Efim Soviet Union 1925 2655
16 Boleslavsky Isaac Soviet Union 1919 2650
17 Euwe Max Holland 1901 2650
18 Steinitz Wilhelm Bohemia 1836 2650
19 Rubinstein Akiba Poland/Belgium 1882 2640
20 Najdorf Miguel Poland/Argentina 1910 2635
21 Pillsbury Harry United States 1872 2630
22 Portisch Lajos Hungary 1937 2630
23 Timman January Holland 1951 2630
24 Flohr Salomon Poland/USSR 1908 2620
25 Gligoric Svetozar Yugoslavia 1923 2620
26 Kholmov Ratmir Soviet Union 1925 2620
27 Kotov Alexander Soviet Union 1913 2620
28 Larsen Bent Denmark 1935 2620
29 Maroczy Geza Hungary 1870 2620
30 Stein Leonid Soviet Union 1934 2620
31 Averbakh Yuri Soviet Union 1922 2615
32 Nimzowitsch Aaron Russia/Denmark 1886 2615
33 Andersson Ulf Sweden 1951 2610
34 Bogoljubov Efim Russia/Germany 1899 2610
35 Furman Semen Soviet Union 1920 2610
36 Ljubojevic Ljubomir Yugoslavia 1950 2610
37 Szabo Laszlo Hungary 1917 2610
38 Tarrasch Siegbert Germany 1862 2610
39 Mecking Henrique Brazil 1952 2608
40 Polugaevsky Lev Soviet Union 1934 2605
41 Anderssen Adolph Germany 1818 2600
42 Chigorin Mikhail Russia 1850 2600
43 Schlechter Carl Austria 1874 2600
44 Taimanov Mark Soviet Union 1926 2600
45 Vidmar Milan Austria/Yugoslavia 1885 2600
46 von der Lasa Tassilo Germany 1818 2600
47 Zukertort Johannes Poland/England 1842 2600
   

goldendog

That list is from 1978. There was an earlier list as I remember it from a CL&R early 70s, and in that one Morphy was 2700 as I recall, Alekhine at 2695 too I think...guess Elo made more calculations.

876543Z1

He's got 'em on the list - he's got 'em on the list;

>:)

theriverman
chessoholicalien wrote:

See Short beat Karpov in 28 moves here:

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1068950

See Short beat Karpov in 36 moves here:

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1068949


I will check it out  ;)

wingtzun

I think i could beat nimzowitch in a 12 game match.

Rob_Soul
mkirk wrote:

I think i could beat nimzowitch in a 12 game match.


Considering that he's been dead for some time now, I don't doubt it!

It's not hard to beat a dead guy. Dead guys kind of resign by default, no?

At the very least, the living player going against them wins every game on time.

gabrielconroy
Rob_Soul wrote:
mkirk wrote:

I think i could beat nimzowitch in a 12 game match.


Considering that he's been dead for some time now, I don't doubt it!

It's not hard to beat a dead guy. Dead guys kind of resign by default, no?

At the very least, the living player going against them wins every game on time.


Wait, are you saying the living guy has an advantage, or the dead guy? It's hard to tell when you're being so ambiguous.

wingtzun

correct!

Elroch

The way to determine accurately the degree of inflation in chess ratings would be to do a detailed computer analysis of the quality of play for games from different decades.

Polar_Bear

I don't accept arguments based on ratings. Arpad Elo himself, inventor of FIDE rating, warned against comparing players this way.

Short and Adams both aren't big names. Ordinary grandmasters, that is all. Karpov was obviously in bad shape in his match vs Short. I consider Staunton, Blackburne, Nunn and Miles much higher in chess history.

TheOldReb
Polar_Bear wrote:

I don't accept arguments based on ratings. Arpad Elo himself, inventor of FIDE rating, warned against comparing players this way.

Short and Adams both aren't big names. Ordinary grandmasters, that is all. Karpov was obviously in bad shape in his match vs Short. I consider Staunton, Blackburne, Nunn and Miles much higher in chess history.


 Staunton wouldnt play Morphy because he knew he would be crushed. The fact that he ducked any match with Morphy certainly lowers him in my view.

kco

The funny about the two players Nigel Short and Garry Kasparov (I like both of them) is that Short is excatly my age  but Kasparov got excatly my birthdate.

Elroch

If my reading of the statistics is correct, this is the first time that Short has been the highest rated English player since 1997.

wingtzun

But Short comprehensively crushed Tony Miles (i know Miles was UK first GM and all that). Nunn is a great player and tactician, reached no 10 in the world and was Short's second (when not competing himself). Short (and Nunn and Miles) would have easily defeated Blackburne in a match, and Short would, I am sure, defeat Staunton (who would struggle to get in world's top 100 now).

Short is no 'ordinary' GM (if there is such a thing) - world's youngest Gm (at one time), many time british Champion, UK no 1, world championship finalist and 2700 + player.

Polar_Bear    - you are wrong!

TheOldReb

Kirk, he's just envious that his country never had a GM as "ordinary" as Short !  Ofcourse, no ordinary GM makes it to a world championship match !