OTB - Taking it easy on lower rated players?

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NimzoRoy
Verthandi wrote:

I feel sort of bad when I play someone rated much lower than me, especially the elderly generation..

I'm new to club play and OTB in general so perhaps thats why, but do you guys ever take it easy on someone? Like overlook the hanging rook on a8 etc?

Why feel bad? It isn't your fault someone else is old or rated lower than you are. And how do you define "tak(ing) it easy?" If by that you mean intentionally overlooking hanging rooks and other errors of that severity you're doing your opponent a disservice, they should be made aware of what they're doing wrong; I usually offer to let them take the move back if it's a casual game. 

In casual  games offer weaker opponents time or material odds. If they decline then play your best which I presume you would do if you were spotting them odds. Or play openings you usually don't play but don't overlook hanging pawns and pieces - if you want your opponent to improve.

BUT, the sad truth is if your opponent isn't serious about improving it probably doesn't matter what you do or don't do; I've told one pal who is usually (but not always) a pushover for me to look over all 64 sqs before every move and I can tell by watching his face he still doesn't routinely do so no matter how many times I tell him. Oh well...

billyblatt
Verthandi wrote:

Hi,

I feel sort of bad when I play someone rated much lower than me, especially the elderly generation..
I'm new to club play and OTB in general so perhaps thats why, but do you guys ever take it easy on someone? Like overlook the hanging rook on a8 etc?

It only goes to show you have a heart. Which means you are still human. If you obey too much of your head; and not consider them as other fellow human beings, and only see them as things to be crushed, then you will become something you will not like. 

Of course others will applaud you for your victories, but in the end you will have to live with yourself. Take the case of Fischer. 

So yes, if you see that you want to be kind, be kind. Don't become a machine. You don't need a reason, or some sort of personal gain, to be or do something good, however small.

chasm1995

Personally, I would play my best against a better player and afterwards see if they would like to go over the game with me and explain what I did wrong while I try to justify what I did and see how it is a bad train of thought.  I would not like to have thousands of errors in my calculations pointed out, but rather a couple of general ideas that I should focus on to improve my play.

waffllemaster
billyblatt wrote:
Verthandi wrote:

Hi,

I feel sort of bad when I play someone rated much lower than me, especially the elderly generation..
I'm new to club play and OTB in general so perhaps thats why, but do you guys ever take it easy on someone? Like overlook the hanging rook on a8 etc?

It only goes to show you have a heart. Which means you are still human. If you obey too much of your head; and not consider them as other fellow human beings, and only see them as things to be crushed, then you will become something you will not like. 

Of course others will applaud you for your victories, but in the end you will have to live with yourself. Take the case of Fischer. 

So yes, if you see that you want to be kind, be kind. Don't become a machine. You don't need a reason, or some sort of personal gain, to be or do something good, however small.

Patronising lower rated players with less than your best effort in a competitive game for the sake of avoiding unpleasant personal feelings?  I woudn't call that human.  I'd use words like immature, selfish, rude, and illogical.

ThrillerFan

Now keep in mind, there is a difference between "Play your best" and "Play your best openings".

What I will do against a significantly lower rated player (400 or more points below me that is) is sometimes I might play an opening that I don't normally play.  It might be an opening I played a while back in the past, or one I'm trying to learn.  The reason is simple.  I can probably play just about anything that's sound and beat the living snot out of him or her.  Sometimes, if you play the exact same thing over and over and over and over again, you start getting complacent, and don't put the proper thought into the game.  Having a change in position can be a good thing.

So while I will throw 1...d6 or 1...g6 at any 2100 player that plays me OTB, I might throw out say, a Scandinavian Defense against a 1600 player, but I'm still going to be "playing my best", I'm just not "playing my best opening".

There is nothing wrong with this approach.  But if you are going to hang a rook that I can safely take without say, getting my Queen trapped, AND that I don't have something better, I will take the Rook.

I will, however, skip taking a piece if I have something that's stronger.  For example, I'll take a line that forces either mate in 7 or for my opponent to give up his Queen before I'll do a 1-move capture of a Bishop that is just outright hanging.  It's not that I'm giving sympathy, it's that I have greener grass growing elsewhere, and would rather have your Queen or King in 7 moves instead of your Bishop in 1 move.

Don't be like Lebron James and stoop down to your opponent just becasue your opponent is weaker.  Don't go around thinking that playing a 2400 is like playing the Spurs and playing a 1400 is like playing the Bobcats.

billyblatt
waffllemaster wrote:
billyblatt wrote:
Verthandi wrote:

Hi,

I feel sort of bad when I play someone rated much lower than me, especially the elderly generation..
I'm new to club play and OTB in general so perhaps thats why, but do you guys ever take it easy on someone? Like overlook the hanging rook on a8 etc?

It only goes to show you have a heart. Which means you are still human. If you obey too much of your head; and not consider them as other fellow human beings, and only see them as things to be crushed, then you will become something you will not like. 

Of course others will applaud you for your victories, but in the end you will have to live with yourself. Take the case of Fischer. 

So yes, if you see that you want to be kind, be kind. Don't become a machine. You don't need a reason, or some sort of personal gain, to be or do something good, however small.

Patronising lower rated players with less than your best effort in a competitive game for the sake of avoiding unpleasant personal feelings?  I woudn't call that human.  I'd use words like immature, selfish, rude, and illogical.

If your intention is to patronise, then you will be patronising. But if your intention is to play just good chess, solid moves, and you don't see the need to crush the opponent, that is, use the most cutting edge theory, then there is nothing wrong with good playable moves. 

If say a super GM, a 2800, was playing someone with rating 1500. There would be no need to play the latest opening theory, or the most deepest and subtle moves, since the 1500, would probably be making mistakes anyway. The GM would just play good chess, and let the game win itself. Nothing can be learnt from the crushing loss, most of the subtleties will be lost on the opponent. Better to save that kind of arsenal for another super GM. It would be an overkill.

If the GM adjusts his play, and plays moves that shows the 1500, the mistakes he or she is making, say punishing them for pawn grabbing etc, then this would be instructional, they would learn something.

But playing with the belief that one has to play 'full strength' otherwise it might be considered patronising, or one shouldn't pay attention to graciousness lest it be considered one is trying to avoid unpleasant feelings, goes to show how narrow an understanding of what it means to be human. 

Each situation is different, and with each changing context, you have to re-evaluate what is best, a flexibility in thinking. The opposite is a know-it-all, one-size-fit-all, self focused, biased mentality. 

waffllemaster

I'm not saying to crush your opponent every game.  I was saying your interpretation of the OP's "taking it easy" as "shows you have a heart" was a "know-it-all, one-size-fit-all, self focused, biased mentality."

But I agree there's a context to each game.  I think Estragon summed it up well (as he usually does).

VLaurenT
Verthandi wrote:

Hi,

I feel sort of bad when I play someone rated much lower than me, especially the elderly generation..
I'm new to club play and OTB in general so perhaps thats why, but do you guys ever take it easy on someone? Like overlook the hanging rook on a8 etc?

If you feel bad beating weaker players, just go and play stronger ones...

billyblatt
waffllemaster wrote:

I'm not saying to crush your opponent every game.  I was saying your interpretation of the OP's "taking it easy" as "shows you have a heart" was a "know-it-all, one-size-fit-all, self focused, biased mentality."

But I agree there's a context to each game.  I think Estragon summed it up well (as he usually does).

doesn't get better than this....

alec42
Verthandi wrote:


I'm new to club play and OTB in general so perhaps thats why, but do you guys ever take it easy on someone? Like overlook the hanging rook on a8 etc?

No I always play my best win lose or draw no matter who my opponent is to do otherwise violates the spirit of the game.

If crush my opponents badly I don't mind spending time going over it with them to help them learn from their mistakes.

SPARTANEMESIS

On the occasions I feel like taking it easy on someone in an OTB game I'll usually do the following: when my opponent is about to make a bad move I'll ask, "Are you sure you want to do that?" while they're in the process of making the move.  This often causes hesitation on their part accompanied by more calculation of the specific move.  There have been times I've asked similar questions repeatedly during a game.  Just be aware some may mistake your kindness for weakness.

SPARTANEMESIS

The men I'm friends with have a very different interpretation from the above of what it means to stand tall, as do I.

Verthandi

Been reading through the response, and so far I'm surprised at how cutt-throat the attitude is. The games that got me writing the OP had close to 1000 points of rating difference, and since my rating eventually will settle and I'll play people more evenly matched this wont be an issue, but I dont think even long-time exposure to the OTB part of chess will change my attitude towards taking it easy.

I also feel weird about accepting the offer of joining their team since I'm gonna drop someone to the 2nd tier team. 

DrCheckevertim

I'm with you. Playing someone who barely plays chess, and would be rated 800 or lower, I will definitely mess around. Not talking about tournaments here, but friendly games. In the extremely unlikely chance that I lose, who really cares.

BigDoggProblem
Grinmaster wrote:

I am mediocre player who is looking to improve.  I would be somewhat frustrated if I played a strong player and they went "easy" on me.  That doesn't help me improve and it wastes their time. 

It doesn't matter how good you are or who you are playing.  Playing your best makes everyone better.

I think there is a point where your opponent is so much stronger that you don't learn much from losing to them. It's kind of like playing a computer on the hardest level.

billyblatt
RandyRhoads wrote:
Kingpatzer wrote:

At our club we have a saying "A man never stands so tall as when he stoops to make a small child cry."

There's no mercy in OTB chess.  

i'm gonna be sick.

lol exactly. When I first read I was lost for words. Was I reading it right? It was just mind-boggling that someone would hold that as their credo. 

Now, some guy posts that thats not what it means. You would have to execute some really sophisticated self-deception to hold the sentiment, but not the intention. Or whichever way round you are twisting your thinking. I don't know. In any case good luck to you...

BigDoggProblem
billyblatt wrote:
RandyRhoads wrote:
Kingpatzer wrote:

At our club we have a saying "A man never stands so tall as when he stoops to make a small child cry."

There's no mercy in OTB chess.  

i'm gonna be sick.

lol exactly. When I first read I was lost for words. Was I reading it right? It was just mind-boggling that someone would hold that as their credo. 

Now, some guy posts that thats not what it means. You would have to execute some really sophisticated self-deception to hold the sentiment, but not the intention. Or whichever way round you are twisting your thinking. I don't know. In any case good luck to you...

Oh pfft - try putting up with all the trash talk from the little bastards and then tell me you don't want to mercilessly execute them over the board!

Psy_Junior

The thing is that I got kicked out of live chess because of something I didn`t do. I am very mad. Can`t the staff do something about it? The people I talked to were very mean, teasing me about my name. They said offensive comments about me. They even swore, but with a different spelling so that it doesn`t go through the moderator. Can you please help?

waffllemaster
billyblatt wrote:
RandyRhoads wrote:
Kingpatzer wrote:

At our club we have a saying "A man never stands so tall as when he stoops to make a small child cry."

There's no mercy in OTB chess.  

i'm gonna be sick.

lol exactly. When I first read I was lost for words. Was I reading it right? It was just mind-boggling that someone would hold that as their credo. 

Now, some guy posts that thats not what it means. You would have to execute some really sophisticated self-deception to hold the sentiment, but not the intention. Or whichever way round you are twisting your thinking. I don't know. In any case good luck to you...

Have you ever played in a tournament?

Games with friends are for fun of course.  At the club, online, etc it's friendly.  But competition is competition.  You play to win period.  To me a good long tournament game of chess is best personified as suffering.  Slow methodical focused torture (for both players).  Not only is there no mercy, mercy is a thousand miles away.

And that's how it should be.  After the game we can be friends, and often there's friendly chatting.  There's nothing mean spirited... I think this is obvious but you seem to misunderstand so I thought I'd throw that in there.

justaguy103

I never make bad moves on purpose, but usually when im playing against my frineds(who are not good players) i give them unlimited time and give myself a minute on the clock. That way they usually win but its much more fun for both of us. To me its not fun at all to win a game with no real effort.  I also often let people take back moves.