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I see you guys have quite the arguement going....
However, I would like to chime in regarding your misguided view of poker. Poker is not a game of chance. It is not Blackjack or any game guided solely by chance, there is a very large skill factor involved. Casino games are a games of luck and in the long run you always lose. However, similiar to chess, poker is a game of human error. You profit by capitalizing on your opponent's mistakes. Although there is obviously more luck than chess, there is a large difference between Poker and flipping a coin.
Also, how can you say that people who use computers to play other players that also use computers are "ill and lazy, with unsharpened mind, maybe retarded"........what?
Go find a match versus a Correspondence GM and I'm sure he will show you that this version of chess is not for the lazy and retarded.
However, I'm sure you would say that the lazy and maybe retarded play poker professionally as well...
I hope you can see my point view! :D
zman,please don't compare poker with chess.Of course poker is not like flipping a coin but is almost.ONLY CHESS IS MIND SPORT.."Chess is the game that gives the highest honor human intelligence."(Voltaire)
As I said if you or anybody else consider that his mind is not lazy I wait to show me on Playchess. Too much talk.
Good night ! See you tomorrow.
Of course I am not discounting the possibility of chance! I simply meant to discount the myth that poker is all chance. (I have played poker semi-professionally on sites such as Pokerstars and Fulltilt prior to them being shut down in the US :D) However, I would like to make a comparison. Although poker is a game of incomplete information and involves a good deal of luck, there is in fact a very real skill element.
Here is an example of you poker haters :D.
On the turn(4th community card in texas holdem) you are more likely to semi-bluff(Bet without a made hand but a chance for a big hand) a gutshot(3 or 4 cards will give you the winning hand) draw into someone who gives you more Fold Equity and someone who will "pay you off" if you do hit big as they won't be able to get away from your hand.
You make an educated and real decision based on the available information and hopefully make a decision that is +EV (Expected Value of making this play is positive in the long run). Will you always win, no. Will you win the first 10 times this happens, maybe not. But it is a good "play".
Also, in chess, has anyone ever made an unsound sacrifice (knowingly) in mutual time pressure to complicate the position in attempts to win. Just saying :D.
I agree wholeheated with you quote. Chess is the best game in the world in my opinion and I love it. However, please read my previous statement or check out some poker books and forums and please reconsider your statement that poker is "almost like flipping a coin".
Also, if you would like to play a game of chess I would be more than willing! :D
Of course you like poker,you are american. :))))). Now is 6 o clock in the morning in my country.I go to sleep .We meet tomorrow ,and we play chess and if you good Iwill reconsider my statement.....
We agree that betting on chess is horrible, but differ in that I see it as not a practical way to make money. I'm not going off on a tangent about moral high ground and judging people with holier than thou sentiments. The point is, if two people want to put their money on something, especially when the conditions are agreed upon between the two parties, why should this bother you? It's scandalous? Wrong? Those are two terms that are rooted in your own values and moral code. That's why I said those things were irrelevant, because what's it to you if two people want to fling their money around on a harmless endeavor? To that, you answered with Biblical references, bringing us to this cyclical argument, which is why I considered the possibility this was a troll thread.
Going back to poker, chance is most definitely involved in one dimension used to answer the question, of whether making a call is a profitable one based on the probability you will hit a winning hand from what's left of the unseen deck throughout the remaining betting rounds. Pot odds man. Then there's the skill in misrepresenting the value of your cards, and being able to catch opponents doing so. Poker is a game of skill and chance.
No offense, but I don't think the result of a game of chess has an bearing on what I am trying to convey, but hey, I'm willing to play anyway.
I warn you though, I'm no slouch :D.
DEM POTS ODDS.
By the way, speaking of pot odds, I never learned or understood Fixed Limit hold'em. Is 67s the nuts?
Also, gauging that his comments have occured throughout the entirety of the night his time, I would say that he strongly values the opinions of strangers and is deeply interested in their everyday lives :D.
Another quick thought.
Why do I invest so much time trying to talk sense into this guy.... Guess I never learned, don't berate the fish at the table....
Sorry my english,but I don t know what means "troll".And in my opinion poker IS a game of most part of luck.
But why I should not answer with biblical references ? Bible is the truth book.Of 6000 predictions have come true about half.Even Nostradamus is not close.
Sorry,I don't understand your proverb - puzzle. Use another word,please.
adip2009... is the truth book for you and for people that share your beliefs, but not for everybody, so, you can´t use it as an argument
which is the relation between the chess strenght of the master zkman and the validity of his thoughts?
The result of your match doesn´t affect the validity of your argument adip2009
I dropped the ball on that one too. Personally I play no-limit hold'em, so probably not the best guy to ask about optimal betting strategies in limit poker.
sounds like you tried to drum up some drama on another website, got shot down, and now brought it here. thanks!
how somebody re-open their account?