Policing the cheaters
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What problem? I haven't played a computer opponent yet. If you suspect somebody of cheating, there is already a place to report it. The only real problem is that our forums are polluted with the same tired, recycled 'solutions to the cheating problem.'
Nobody is a computer opponent. There may be people out there who consult computers for some moves, but I have yet to play against the computer. If people want to cheat then fine. I'll be glad to lose a few rating points so the other person can feel special.
As far as I am concerned, if anyone uses a computer to make their move, they are just hurting themselves. They are actually helping me play vs. a stronger opponent and I will learn as they will not. If their rating is more important than using their own mind, then I pity them.,
There are very, very few cheaters here. And there already is a solution. If you suspect someone is cheating by using a computer report them to Erik and he'll use his super-secret method to check them out... problem solved.
I've read a few posts on this. The discussions are interesting. What I've gathered is this:
1) Most people haven't ever played against a computer cheater (or so they believe)
2) Computer cheating is not defined
2a) Most people speak of "sanity checking" with software as perfectly acceptable
2b) Most people agree that having the computer run the whole game is cheating
3) Erik has a method to ferret out "cheaters" but hasn't defined what the threshold is for cheating
Personally, the best strategy I have read on the forums for dealing with cheaters is to not worry about it. If someone is going to cheat, how will you ever know for sure? On top of that, in the grand scheme of things, is it even that important? Your chess.com rating can't be used anywhere. It doesn't get you a t-shirt or advanced tournament standing. Really, if someone thinks it's important enough to get an inflated rating, then the person who complains about a cheater because it effects their own rating is guilty of the same hubris by different (more socially acceptable) methods.
I say play and don't worry about it.
Heck, you play against a computer long enough and you'll eventually beat it.
Please no more cheating treads! It is a waste of time wondering if your opponent is cheating, beside I agree with likesforest there are little to none cheating here. In the past players had supected other players cheating which wasn't the case. the player that lost his game just played horrible. But to him his opponent was cheating..lol. There are just to many ways to cheat. Computers or recieving help from a friend.
if someone was cheating you can report that
May 21, 2008
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#11
If anyone suspects cheating, there is a way to report it.
A point system is bad because it could be abused.
May 21, 2008
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#12
Get a team of players to analyze suspected players games... it's not that hard to tell.
May 21, 2008
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#13
Those rascally cheaters, they ruin everything!
You know cars could get much better gas mileage, but these damned cheaters have screwed that up.
World Peace??? Yup... computer cheaters have this so screwed up it'll be centuries before we can manage that.
David Archuleta not winning American Idol... yup.. .computer cheaters.
And why can't I wear a pair of nylons twice without a run???
...
Computer cheaters made me say too much.
Patzer24 wrote: The best thing to do is Report Abuse if you feel an opponent is cheating in one of your games.
Yup. The topic is getting tired. Report Abuse and move on with your lives, people.
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A man with one clock knows what time it is, but a man with two clocks is playing chess.
this has been a popular topic lately. I wonder how many people actually ask the person they suspect if they are cheating. I know that admission to guilt is unlikely, but its always possible that their could be confusion. Its so difficult to tell. In the end its all just a game that we all enjoy.
Remember people that this site is correspondence chess any average player given a days time to think out one move is almost a match for any machine. Many people forget that and think that someone who played well is cheating. In any case there is an interesting way to tell if someone is cheating... Check their endgames. Computers play strange endgames. They don't like to commit to any plan of action. For example: in a rook endgame a human with a passed pawn would immediately push the pawn. The computer will move the rook alot, much to your annoyance and push the pawn very slowly cutting off all chances of counter play. Also a machine will rarely simplify into a king-pawn endgame unless it has an advantage. It will decline rook trades almost a 70 percent of the time given an equal position of course. In a bishop vs bishop endgame you can catch a computer red handed, they will illogically move their bishops all over the place, they will rarely ever make any move to commit to a plan. They just manouvre their bishop and wait for you to set your plan in action, if you make a mistake they will take advantage if not they are very stubborn to trade off the bishops and take a draw....Happy hunting!!!
KingsMove wrote: Remember people that this site is correspondence chess any average player given a days time to think out one move is almost a match for any machine. Many people forget that and think that someone who played well is cheating. In any case there is an interesting way to tell if someone is cheating... Check their endgames. Computers play strange endgames. They don't like to commit to any plan of action. For example: in a rook endgame a human with a passed pawn would immediately push the pawn. The computer will move the rook alot, much to your annoyance and push the pawn very slowly cutting off all chances of counter play. Also a machine will rarely simplify into a king-pawn endgame unless it has an advantage. It will decline rook trades almost a 70 percent of the time given an equal position of course. In a bishop vs bishop endgame you can catch a computer red handed, they will illogically move their bishops all over the place, they will rarely ever make any move to commit to a plan. They just manouvre their bishop and wait for you to set your plan in action, if you make a mistake they will take advantage if not they are very stubborn to trade off the bishops and take a draw....Happy hunting!!!
Maybe a Grandmaster would be almost a match for any machine, but average players, even average masters, will be blasted regardless of time given to move.
As as far as endgames go I think the best programs can now play as well as any human, or at least well enough that it would be impossible to identify a computer just by looking at the endgame. Most programs also have huge endgame databases that also them to play many situations perfectly.
I agree that the topic of cheating has been beat to death. Having read a bazillion posts on multiple playing sights I have come to thsese conclusions:
Cheating will always happen to everyone from time to time, no matter what. However I don't believe it happens nearly as much as some people think it does.
The only way to catch a cheater is to analyze their game(s) with a program like Fritz. Unfortunately this is very time consuming, not 100% accurate, and only works when the cheater is using a program for nearly every move. However there are always some cheaters who do just that, so I do believe some level of enforcement is important to catch at least the most obvious bad apples.
Depends what you mean by cheating of course...
Over the board it's just you versus an opponent. Easy to see if someone is cheating, and also easy to define what cheating means
Over the internet - when you have lots of time to think, analyse and research - what constitutes cheating? I think that most people would agree that using a computer is cheating. But what about using opening/endgame books? That seems to be allowed on this site. But then should you only read the book before or after you play a game, not during the game? And what if you search the web for a certain opening or line? And what if you use a computer for openings - how is that different to using a book? What if you have a chess teacher who teaches you something one week that appears in a game you are currently playing? And what if...And what if... And what if...
Let's assume that cheating is defined by the rules on this site (I guess a pretty good definition if you don't want to be kicked off! :o). How can you know if someone is cheating? I'd really be interested in Eric's secret method - it sounds fascinating! And KingsMove's post sounds good, but then quite a lot of us probably don't have any clear plan of action in endgames anyway! We all play good moves and bad moves - I play at least one grandmaster level move per game (just think 1. e4) so I would guess that we all play a few great moves from time to time (even if we don't know it), and also we probably play a few moves that, while a grandmaster wouldn't play, a computer would play.
Lastly, I don't care if people cheat, however you define that. If they do cheat, they are playing better, and that surely makes me a better player as well
What are the rules for playing?
You many only have ONE Chess.com member account. You may NOT get any help from any person or any chess engine that analyzes your specific position, including tablebases. You MAY use books, magazines, or other articles. You may also use computer databases. EXCEPTION: If both players agree for the use of a chess engine in an UNRATED game then it can be allowed.
Is there a way to determine if someone is cheating while playing?
At least to where you are fairly certain they are and if so can we establish a way to report suspected offenders?
Maybe we could use a point system...If you get reported then a point...If you get too many points in a set time limit then you get warned and then maybe blocked and eventually banned
Now before everyone starts getting all freaky on me I just want to say this is an idea to start the discussion off.
I am looking for input on this idea and whether or not it is even feasible.
What I am trying to do is brainstorm everyone to get a better grip mentally on this problem.
Thanks and please I would like to keep this post semi-serious
Wjones4
All input is welcome!!!