Questions about Chess Rules

Sort:
Bookmarke

I've always had a couple questions about some of the rules of chess (tournament play and online/how they might differ) so I was hoping someone here would be able to answer some:

1. If you have two knights and a king against a lone king and it is not possible to force a win within 50 moves, can you claim a draw by insufficient material (what if mate actually can be forced, would it automatically be declared a draw online)? If you run out of time with the lone king do you lose on time or draw?

2. Similarly if you have a lone knight versus a lone bishop, it is still possible to deliver mate (although your opponent would have to make serious mistakes). Is this automatically a draw? What if mate can be forced?

3. Let's say in the following diagram, White has to mate in 2 or else it will be a draw by the 50 move rule. Is it actually possible to mate in two or is it a draw by insufficient material before then?

4. If you're in serious time trouble in a tournament game and you move your king into check (let's say it's standard and not blitz) can your opponent take your king ending the game or does he/she just get extra time or something because an illegal move was made? Can you stop the clocks and call over the tournament director in this situation to add the time even if you made the mistake?

Thanks for any help clarifying!

PermanentVacation

It depends on which rules are used. The United States Chess Federation play by their own rules and make you pay for the rulebook. I don't know the USCF rules and have never played a USCF tournament so if it's a USCF tournament I can't help you.

Under FIDE rules for competitions at standard time controls:

1&2: Mate has to be possible by any sequence of legal moves (i.e. does not need to be forced) for a win-loss result to occur when one player runs out of time. If mate is not possible the result is a draw. Mate is possible with two knights and a king against a lone king so in this case the player with the lone king would lose on time.

3: Either player can claim a draw by 50 move rule. 

4: The position prior to the illegal move is reinstated and the opponent of the player who made the illegal move is given an extra two minutes.

On Chess.com:

1&2: Material is the only consideration. The position on the board is ignored. Lone king, king and knight, king and two knights, and king and bishop are all insufficient material to win on time. The same should be true of king and multiple bishops of the same colour though I'm not sure how if that's actually the case.

3: Either player can claim a draw by fifty move rule.

4: It is not possible to make illegal moves.

ThrillerFan

A lot depends on where you are playing.  Different organizations are different.

USCF - For a tournament that is USCF rated but NOT FIDE rated, a K, K+B, K+N, or K+2N and the opponent has no pawns, are all considered "Insufficient Mating Material".  If your opponent runs out of time, it's a draw unless you can demonstrate FORCED MATE.  For example:  WKe6, WBh6, BPe7, BPh7, BKg8, Black's let's his clock run out.  White can demonstrate that 1...Kh8 is forced, then 2.Kf7 and Black must move his e-pawn, after which 3.Bg7 is mate.  White wins.  Otherwise, it's a draw.

 

Chess.com - They clearly are inept in developing the code to check for forced mate.  In the example above, it would be scored a draw if Black runs out of time despite there being forced mate.

 

FIDE - Any tournament that is FIDE rated MUST follow FIDE rules, including tournaments in the United States.  For FIDE, if you run out of time, you lose if there is ANY sequence of legal moves that mates your King, even helpmate!

 

In all of these cases, you can't capture the King.  It is 2 minutes added to the opponent's clock for EACH Illegal move in USCF, for the FIRST illegal move in FIDE.  The second illegal move by the same player in the same game in FIDE is a loss for the player making his second illegal move.

 

Some other things to be alert about in USCF vs FIDE:

1) When promoting, in USCF, you can turn a Rook upside down to resemble a Queen.  In FIDE, a Rook is a Rook is a Rook, no matter how you position it.  If no queen is available, you stop the clock, get the director, and inform him you need a white/black Queen.

2) When promoting, if you push a pawn to the 8th rank, and hit the clock without making it anything, in USCF, all your opponent can do is hit the clock back and not make his move until you complete yours.  Calling a piece is not completion.  You must promote it.  In FIDE, if you don't physically promote it, it's an illegal move and the opponent gets 2 minutes if it's the first violation and wins if it's the second violation.  In addition, if it is the first illegal move, the player is then given no choice.  He MUST make it a queen, even if making it a Queen is stalemate and a Rook would have won!

3)  The following positions would have different rulings if White's clock expires:

 

First Diagram - USCF is a win for Black, FIDE is a draw!  In USCF, you simply need sufficient mating material.  FIDE you need a legal way to mate.  The problem is, the ONLY legal move for White is 1.Rg2 CHECKMATE!  Therefore, there is NO LEGAL WAY FOR BLACK TO WIN if there were no clock, therefore, Black doesn't get a win for White running out of time, it's a draw.  USCF, because Black has a Queen, Rook, etc, he would get the win!

Second Diagram - USCF is a draw, FIDE is a loss for White as he could play 1.Ka2 Bd8 2.Ka1 and now Black walks his King to a3 or b3 while White toggles his Bishop between c2 and h7.  Once the King arrives at a3, then White plays Bb1 and Black has Bf6 mate!  Note that with Same color Bishops, it would be a draw as mate is impossible.

 

Bookmarke

Interesting! Thanks for the responses

AndersElsborg

JoeFarnakle answers to the position Bookmarkes diagram that either player can claim a draw by 50 move rule.

I don't see how it is possible because when black captures the rook, the counting starts from zero again

PermanentVacation

Anders you are correct, I misread the question. If two more moves are required to reach the fifty moves the draw may not be claimed.

The draw can only be claimed by the player having the move.  In the position it is White to move so let's assume he wants to win and he plays Rg8+. It is now Black to move. If there were no pawn moves and no captures in the last fifty moves by each player Black can claim a draw even though he is one move from being mated. If Black's next move is required to reach the fifty moves then Black can't claim the draw as his only legal move is a capture which resets the count.

KovaiKid

Player A makes a move and before player makes his move,player A again makes a move.How to treat this ? Is it illegal move or warning to be given?