"blindfold chess" and calculation

I've read a couple of the threads on blindfold chess and I'm wondering whether some of the techniques there might help me in visualising calculations during an OTB game.

I have difficulty with calculations because the images of the solid pieces on the board interfere with my visualisation of where they could be in two or three moves time. They are sitting there in full 3dimension and block out the image of what the board could look like in 3 or 4 moves, when six or eight pieces will have changed position.

How do GMs do this? What do you see when working out calculations?

And when visualising the board "blindfolded", do you always see white at the bottom? ie A1 at the bottom left hand side of the board? Or can you flip it at random? Do you visualise the game as a picture or as a series of moves, for example P at e4, B at g7 etc?

Would this help me to calculate possibilities more accurately?  If not, what would you advise?

for me to make it easier playing blindfolded I only visualize the pieces that have moved off their starting squares.  This helps a little bit in the opening, but once all(or most) pieces have been developed I start to lose track.

In a game with calculation I don't normally get your problem with the pieces interfering with visualization.  I guess all you need for that is calculation practice

It's common wisdom that the average limit of memory is seven unrelated objects, for example "Mrs Brown went to town and she bought a cabbage,  a loaf of bread, a newspaper, some biscuits, butter, frozen french fries, a pumpkin, and .. "

Most people would forget one or more of these at this point.

So there has to be a technique involved. Someone can easily remember, for example, a password containing 15 letters if it is an easily-remembered phrase, like "wholetthedogout"

I suspect that blindfold chess players think in terms of board positions, like "Tarrasch defence, move 4", and actually visualise the position in their heads, rather than remember each move. Even so, it is a remarkable feat. And if they remember more than seven boards they are already way ahead of the most of us.

I have played a few games of blindfold chess but never more than one at the time. My best result is that I have beaten an A class player blindfold while he had sight of the board. I often get a bad headache  when I play blindfold though so dont make a habit of it.  I was going to a tournament with two friends once , one was a master of 2300 and the other was 2100, the 2100 was driving and I played a blindfold game with the 2300 ( both of us blind ) and won but because he blundered when he "forgot" a move I had made...... I find it FAR more difficult to play complete beginners in this manner as they make moves that make no sense and I must recall each move and where everything is and am not helped by simply remembering the opening that we have played.......

Hey, Estragon, don't mind the troller, your comments are much appreciated.

notlesu is probably just a dumb kid, or at least should be treated like one.

I think blindfold chess is a good warm up exercise before a OTB game. Makes you alert for one.

Challenges your mistakes like over the OTB is another

A God send is the third!

Hey Estragon, thanks for sharing.  The fact that you seem to have earned your own personal ankle-biter is like a credit to your contributions here.  I mean, imagine if instead he was actually countering the stuff you were saying.  Instead we get the empty question "are you for real", and "wow you had a mentor" like no one had some one around them that knew the game better or knew the local tournaments better or something.  What's next, calling you an "elitist"?

I remember your valuable contributions to a vote chess game that were we both in like a year ago, and since then you've always stood out to me as being someone that has something good to offer here.

I read in The Fireside Book of Chess that once in the Soviet Union it was unlawful to play blindfold chess.  As it went on to say, didn't the government realize a master sees 10 moves ahead that is a form of blindfold chess?  

Also, in the same book: Beethoven composed masterpieces of music and he was deaf, and Arthur Ford Mackenzie composed chess problems and he was blind.

The FIreside Book of Chess was my first chess book!  It was given to me by a friend's dad when I was like 8 or 10 or something. 

It wasn't my first book, but it is a great book that I enjoying reading from time to time.

 My first book of chess was: First Book of Chess. by I. A. Horowitz & Fred Reinfeld.  I was 17 and I purchased it the next day after someone showed me how to move the pieces, and that person wasn't sure how the knight moved.  No matter, I was hooked on chess and I just had to learn.  I had no one to help me learn more, nor anyone to play with.  

The next book was, Winning Chess Tactics Illustrated edited by I. A. Horowitz. I found this in the library and purchased one immediately after returning the library book.

Between the two books I went to the library for all my information about chess. That was a span of about 9 years. There were no computers then and I had to fend for myself.  It wasn't until I went into the army two years after learning the moves that I was able to find OTB opponents.  None of them were much better than I was, except one sergeant that beat me every time we played. He was excellent with his knights and I learned from just watching him fork me time and again with them.  He was kind enough to help learn, too.  I will never forget his kindness.

i once beat a dude rated like 2100 blindfolded; both of us notated while staring at an empty board, it probably looked funny to outsiders.

You have lost me, in that, I do not see anywhere in what I wrote anything about “effort”.  

You wrote:  “In fact the reason they did is probably partly so that workers wouldn't play blindfold chess with each other while working and distract them from their duties.” does make sense to me.

You wrote that you knew it wasn’t true that there was ever such a law. Can you proof it?  I mean, if the author is wrong about this, perhaps other things in the book are wrong, too. I entered something else form this book on another thread and someone posted a site to prove the author wrong. It makes me wonder just how actuate the author’s information is.  

Why is saying that looking ahead 10 moves is a form of blindfold chess is objectively wrong?  When you play blindfold chess aren’t you visualizing the board and moving the pieces in you mind? I do.  I do not play blindfold chess well, in fact, I have never been able to finish a game, but I do see the board, or diagram, in my mind.  I am not picking on your reply. I truly am curious as to why you think that.

uhohspaghettio, I meant to mention in that last post that in The Fireside Book of Chess is an example of J. H. Blackburne announcing a forced mate in 16 moves while playing blindfolded.  That's on P. 98.  I will post that later, because the notion is Anglo-American, which I used to use, but is rather difficult for me to translate move by move into written form without doing so by writing it out first. 

Now if the authors, Irving Chernev & Fred Reinfeld, are wrong about this, too, I give up!  

"Einstein flunked out of school, twice. Beethoven was deaf, Helen keller was blind. I think Rocky's got a good chance." - Adrian Balboa

Hilarious!

The world record in blindfold chess was set by George Koltanowski in 1937 in Edinburg. He played 34 simultaneous games, with a score of +24 -10 =0

...that bit of information is crazy. I can't even imagine playing one.

I am pretty sure that Miguel Najdorf of Argentina once played 47 games blinfolded.

In fine form again, I notice

I stand corrected and btw I just remembered that they were exhibition games!