So when a football (soccer) team is 6-0 up and there's 20 minutes left, the other team should 'resign', instead of playing out the game? A chess game lasts until checkmate.
Resignation Etiquette
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I can see why you wouldn't resign in OTB or live chess, but turn base?
Y drag out a game another week when its obvious that you lost? lets say the position is your opponent has 2 passed pawns on the 3rd or 4th rank with a rook vs your bishop and king (king to far to do anything in the game). I mean come on, you opponent was able to outplay you when the position was even but you expect them to mess up a position that can EASILY be won by a 1200 player?
And cheater, can you please stop picking topics that are completly over debated. 2 posts about how chess isn't a sport and now this. Whats next? A thread explaining what the best answer to 1. D4 is?
On the first day that we learned the game of chess, we were taught that the object of a chess game is to checkmate the opponent's king. How soon we forget? Winning material does NOT mean won the game. If I have enough material to mate my opponent's king, then I play on. If I am up in material on an opponent, then I expect that opponent's attitude towards chess to be similar to mine. Because this is my personal conviction, I am never upset when any of my opponents refuses to resign what appears to be a 'losing position'. In my humble opinion, beginners should always play their games out to checkmate, and study how they were mated.
Salaskan wrote:
So when a football (soccer) team is 6-0 up and there's 20 minutes left, the other team should 'resign', instead of playing out the game? A chess game lasts until checkmate.
This is such a clearly invalid analogy and I think you realize why.
The massive support that the 'nonresigners' receive here shows that USA is not a country of much chess tradition and culture.
I lived in Missouri for 2 years, I know what I am talking about. I witnessed many examples of misbehavior: hammering the clock, not resigning in absolutely lost positions, continuing to play in drawish endgames (in timetrouble of the opponent), for instance rook and king against rook and king. And many players are just very weak, but they play in tournaments.
If there wouldn't be the russian immigrants , USA could not compete with any European country having more than 30 Million inhabitants, (not to talk about the 'chess nations' Ukraina, Georgia, Armenia, Hungary, Iceland,...)
IF you are in an OTB tournament you need a lot of stamina. Playing at that level intensely over a period of days is incredibly taxing. Players often take draw offers, glad of point rather than slog it out, and save their energy. The same is true, prob even more of resigning in lost positions. Valour, honour and fighting spirit are all very well but use up mental energy that is better preserved for oncoming games, where there is good chance of win or draw. If you are playing turn based chess online I guess different logic applies.
Aug 13, 2008
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#48
You've lost me - where is "here"? Chess.com has 242,050 members from 234 countries - according to the Members' Map. Opinions expressed on this website reflect the views of members in 234 countries - not just the USA.
the old addage is that winners never quit and quitters never win...a pawn can win a checkmate and only the chess engines that cheater uses are mistake proof when you're down a piece.
artfizz wrote:
You've lost me - where is "here"? Chess.com has 242,050 members from 234 countries - according to the Members' Map. Opinions expressed on this website reflect the views of members in 234 countries - not just the USA.
The USA and other English speaking countries are ALOT better represented then all the other countries.
artfizz wrote:
You've lost me - where is "here"? Chess.com has 242,050 members from 234 countries - according to the Members' Map. Opinions expressed on this website reflect the views of members in 234 countries - not just the USA.
Carefully read his post. His two years in Missouri give him the authority to speak about all Americans. Also, he seems to think the US having immigrants is a cheating method or low handed trick. Kind of scary to see someone from Germany posting on the side of an ethnically pure line of chess players, no?
Ah, the stereotypes. Love 'em.
mandelshtam wrote:
The massive support that the 'nonresigners' receive here shows that USA is not a country of much chess tradition and culture. I lived in Missouri for 2 years, I know what I am talking about. I witnessed many examples of misbehavior: hammering the clock, not resigning in absolutely lost positions, continuing to play in drawish endgames (in timetrouble of the opponent), for instance rook and king against rook and king. And many players are just very weak, but they play in tournaments. If there wouldn't be the russian immigrants , USA could not compete with any European country having more than 30 Million inhabitants, (not to talk about the 'chess nations' Ukraina, Georgia, Armenia, Hungary, Iceland,...)
Yep. Us Americans sure is just a bunch of rustic dopes. Not like you guys in Deutschland. Ubermensch that you all is. You really can learn everything about us by living in Missouri for 2 years.
And you've found us out: not many Americans are imbued with chess culture and tradition. Probably makes everyone else in the world feel incredibly superior to us. We weep all the time thinking that despite having the world's largest economy, we just don't have no chess culture. It's our eternal shame, but we have to live with it.
Just to clarify a point: Every American is either an immigrant or the descendants of immigrants (even the Native Americans came from Eurasia). We can't afford to be too snooty about someone not being of pure American race, since that is a contradiction in terms.
Aug 14, 2008
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#54
Logic, actually. (Good name for a movie?)
Thanks for getting the discussion away from xenophobia. At least now now we only have more specific place phobias (http://www.adaa.org/GettingHelp/SelfHelpTests/selftest_specialpho.asp) to address.
well, as easy as it sounds, not resigning is not that easy. part of winning chess is your ego and playing 15 points down in a game does not exactly boost it. just imagine the following game:
Tunatin wrote:
Just for the record, I have never lived in Missouri, therefore I will keep my resignation opinions to myself. But I had been wondering anyway, is there anyone else out there who has never lived in Missouri?
I've never lived in Missouri, but I've visited more than once. St. Louis is a nice place to visit.
Aug 14, 2008
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#57
i used to resign what i thought were hopeless games. til i won with a q & b against 2 bs, 2 rs & a q. sometimes opportunities present themselves. that said, if it's someone on my friends list, who i know wont blunder, thats where i find confusion. do i deny them the pleasure of a well played checkmate, or bow out to a job well done?
neospooky wrote:
artfizz wrote:
You've lost me - where is "here"? Chess.com has 242,050 members from 234 countries - according to the Members' Map. Opinions expressed on this website reflect the views of members in 234 countries - not just the USA. Carefully read his post. His two years in Missouri give him the authority to speak about all Americans. Also, he seems to think the US having immigrants is a cheating method or low handed trick. Kind of scary to see someone from Germany posting on the side of an ethnically pure line of chess players, no? Ah, the stereotypes. Love 'em.
The majority of people who speak out in the forums here are US americans.
The USA has a nation of more than 250 Million people, with huge number of highly educated people. Don't you think this justifies an expectation of a much stronger chess nation, with some hundred GM's ?
The 'show-me' state Missouri is beautiful, people are nice and I liked my stay (St. Louis is marvellous!), but it is of course not the one where the industrial heart of the USA beats. I confess, I cannot generalize from that experience too much, but I sometimes like poking, exaggerating jokes...
You wouldn't however reacted as you did, if I was one of you.
I have nothing to do with fascists, as you suggest (I heard similar comparisons by some others who don't like to hear criticism of nonamericans, you might think about that phenomenon). But I am willing to take that as another exaggerating joke.
neospooky wrote:
artfizz wrote:
You've lost me - where is "here"? Chess.com has 242,050 members from 234 countries - according to the Members' Map. Opinions expressed on this website reflect the views of members in 234 countries - not just the USA. Carefully read his post. His two years in Missouri give him the authority to speak about all Americans. Also, he seems to think the US having immigrants is a cheating method or low handed trick. Kind of scary to see someone from Germany posting on the side of an ethnically pure line of chess players, no? Ah, the stereotypes. Love 'em.
I nver said that having immigrants is a cheating method. To be more precise, Europe and many other conutries and regions should acknowledge that integrating successfully so many foreigners is a great thing where they should learn from the USA and Canada.
I pointed to the fact that the good results of the USA in recent Chess Olympiades is due to the Russian immigrants. There was and still is not such a vibrant chess life in USA, as we have in many European countries (not just Russia) with leagues for all levels, many open tournaments, clubs with big numbers of active members of all ranks.
For instance, Germany has more than 10 000 subscribed club players.
I agree with Cheater1's first post in this thread, it was how I was taught to play, regardless if I'm online or in person. If less people want to play with me because of that..oh well.