Single game rating....

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Jazzmanneobop
Martin_Stahl wrote:
Jazzmanneobop wrote:

And here is rhe blank ELO rating from the same game

Was that from the game from the PGN?

Yes

RuFour86
Martin_Stahl wrote:
RuFour86 wrote:

Jazz and Angus, I already explained it. They TOOK it away unless it is against a bot or a live chess.com game.

That's incorrect. I just posted two examples of uploaded games, without ratings, that provide rating estimates.

As I mentioned, I'm directly working with the staff member over Game Review and the Report Card feature and if there was such a limitation he would have mentioned it

Were the games you ran "LIVE" games on chess.com? If so, then it works whether the games were unrated or not. But, if you upload a PGN from a OTB game or other site. It won't work I bet.

AngusByers
Martin_Stahl wrote:
AngusByers wrote:

Sure. This is a PGN from a game I uploaded to my Library that I played (as black) against an App on my phone at level 7 (out of 10). The app doesn't do well with this variation of the Petroff and always ends up losing it's Queen in the first few moves which is annoying, but it is one of the games I haven't got the ELO scores for (will give me the accuracy scores and coaches feedback, and tag all the moves from Brilliant - none in this game - through to blunder, but won't give estimated ELO values).

...

I ran a review of that on an Analysis Board and from a Library collection with no issues:

Interesting, as the PGN is directly downloaded from my Library but when I run it it won't give me those values, and hasn't been giving them to me for a week or two (although it worked like it has for you on similar games before), even on games it has produced ELO estimates for me in the past. I'm limited to one review per day and I'm taking that into account.

Thanks, though, for your help. Very much appreciated. 

Martin_Stahl
RuFour86 wrote:
 

Well can you explain the message I received then?

Since the staff member responsible for the project didn't mention anything about it after asking if there were known issues with the feature and then testing to see if the problem could be recreated, then there's apparently some miscommunication.

Martin_Stahl
RuFour86 wrote:
Martin_Stahl wrote:
RuFour86 wrote:

Jazz and Angus, I already explained it. They TOOK it away unless it is against a bot or a live chess.com game.

That's incorrect. I just posted two examples of uploaded games, without ratings, that provide rating estimates.

As I mentioned, I'm directly working with the staff member over Game Review and the Report Card feature and if there was such a limitation he would have mentioned it

Were the games you ran "LIVE" games on chess.com? If so, then it works whether the games were unrated or not. But, if you upload a PGN from a OTB game or other site. It won't work I bet.

It doesn't matter. I have ran both games played on site, game uploaded without ratings embedded, games from OTB play, games in Library collections.

RuFour86
Martin_Stahl wrote:
RuFour86 wrote:
 

Well can you explain the message I received then?

Since the staff member responsible for the project didn't mention anything about it after asking if there were known issues with the feature and then testing to see if the problem could be recreated, then there's apparently some miscommunication.

I am guessing that the feature only works for games played against chess.com bots or live games on chess.com rated or unrated. Yes, you can go back into your libraries and pull games played on chess.com versus a bot or unrated or rated and they work. HOWEVER, if you upload a pgn from a OTB or other site, it doesn't give you the estimated elo anymore. Notice, the angus and Jazz have not stated that their games were played on chess.com but rather "uploaded" the games.

Jazzmanneobop

Martin_Stahl - I appreciate your help too. However, as a Diamond-level member, I should not have any restrictions on my use of any app on the site. I have run the same analysis in two different browsers - Firefox and Chrome - and it has not produced an ELO rating for the game. And like RuFour86, the analysis function on the site produced ELO ratings on four games I had loaded prior to last week has not produced the ELO ratings since.

RuFour86
Jazzmanneobop wrote:

Martin_Stahl - I appreciate your help too. However, as a Diamond-level member, I should not have any restrictions on my use of any app on the site. I have run the same analysis in two different browsers - Firefox and Chrome - and it has not produced an ELO rating for the game. And like RuFour86, the analysis function on the site produced ELO ratings on four games I had loaded prior to last week has not produced the ELO ratings since.

Exactly, games where it had previously produced ELO ratings for OTB games stored in my library are gone. Whereas the ones again the bots are still there and functioning. Hence, the message I got from chess.com appears to be correct.

Jazzmanneobop

RuFour86 -

Yes, exactly. When I say "uploaded" I mean I played the game live with a friend and recorded the moves by pen and paper. I then came back to the site and used the "analysis" function to enter each move and then review the game.

I also use it a different way. I play games with someone off the website and while I'm playing the game I enter each move using the analysis function. Then I save the game and run the review. The ELO rating appeared the first couple of weeks it was available but starting last week the analysis section stopped displaying the ELO rating. Instead the rating is blank.

Martin_Stahl

@jazzmanneobop, I've been able to determine it's an issue outside of the beta. I'll follow up with staff.

Martin_Stahl
RuFour86 wrote:
Martin_Stahl wrote:
RuFour86 wrote:
 

Well can you explain the message I received then?

Since the staff member responsible for the project didn't mention anything about it after asking if there were known issues with the feature and then testing to see if the problem could be recreated, then there's apparently some miscommunication.

I am guessing that the feature only works for games played against chess.com bots or live games on chess.com rated or unrated. Yes, you can go back into your libraries and pull games played on chess.com versus a bot or unrated or rated and they work. HOWEVER, if you upload a pgn from a OTB or other site, it doesn't give you the estimated elo anymore. Notice, the angus and Jazz have not stated that their games were played on chess.com but rather "uploaded" the games.

I ran it on OTB games as well, with no embedded ratings. See my previous post. It's been working for me as I'm part of the beta and I've let staff know what my testing encountered.

Martin_Stahl

@RuFour86 so after getting and providing more details, it was brought up that PGNs without ratings embedded were providing very inaccurate estimates. So @bang wasn't totally incorrect; it had nothing to do with with optimizations but a behavior change based on the lack of ratings to base the report card on.

From the initial posts, it wasn't clear that the problem only was with uploaded games without rating information, so the staff member responsible apparently didn't think about mentioning that potential. Add to that, apparently the beta code still works fine without the ratings, so my initial testing didn't uncover any clues.

For everyone else with the issues, I don't know if that behavior is going to change for PGNs without ratings or if the beta will start doing what the main site does. For now, if you add ratings to the PGNs, they should generate a report card. You should try to be as accurate as possible there as the algorithm takes those values into account when generating results.

RuFour86

Thanks Martin!

AngusByers

Ok, as a test case, I added the tags:

[WhiteELO "1500"]

[BlackELO "1500"]

to the PGN I posted earlier and uploaded that to my Library.

The game listing in the Library now shows 1500 as the ELO for both players, and it let me run a review (sometimes it will run a second on the same day for some reason, other times I get the pop up message saying I've used my review for the day; if I don't get that pop-up, I would get ELO estimates for both games).
Anyway, it still didn't give me Estimated ELO values, but did give me all the other full review features (accuracy scores, and so forth). I just noted that although it shows the ELO values I entered in the Library menu as the ratings, if I click Analyse to bring up the option to review, but look at the details tab (with the i in the circle above it), the rating boxes are empty. So, I tried filling those in too. When I did that, the 1500 showed up in brackets next to both names over the board, so it may be that my lucky 2nd review still didn't know about the ELO values. However, it won't let me do a third review today, so I don't know if adding the information there is necessary. Also, I'm not sure why it wasn't filled in based upon the tags given it seems to have been extracted in order to be shown in the Library menu of games?
Once I get a chance to try reviewing it with the ELO values filled in on the Details tab, I will let you know if that has done the trick.
Again, thanks Martin for your help.

Martin_Stahl

My suggestion would be adding the rating before importing into the Library. Either directly in the PGN or the Details tab of the Analysis Board. It should carry over to the Library after.

AngusByers
Martin_Stahl wrote:

My suggestion would be adding the rating before importing into the Library. Either directly in the PGN or the Details tab of the Analysis Board. It should carry over to the Library after.

That's what I did. I added the elo to the PGN file on my computer, then uploaded it to the library as a new game with that information now included. And while the Library shows that uploaded game as having both players with ELO of 1500 (as test values), the Details tab does not seem to import them (which I noticed after doing a review). Tomorrow, when I can do another review, I will try also adding the information to the Details tab, which results in the ELO values showing up in brackets next to the players' names, and so indicates a potential change in what the analysis routines will have to work with, and see if that makes a difference. Otherwise, I can't think of any other way to supply ELO information to a game uploaded in this way.

TonyTheSexy

sinnn, sinn ciity wasn't made for you

Jazzmanneobop
Martin_Stahl wrote:For everyone else with the issues, I don't know if that behavior is going to change for PGNs without ratings or if the beta will start doing what the main site does. For now, if you add ratings to the PGNs, they should generate a report card. You should try to be as accurate as possible there as the algorithm takes those values into account when generating results.
 
Hey there. I'm unsure as to how to add ratings to the PGN. Another topic or can you explain?
AngusByers
Jazzmanneobop wrote:
Martin_Stahl wrote:For everyone else with the issues, I don't know if that behavior is going to change for PGNs without ratings or if the beta will start doing what the main site does. For now, if you add ratings to the PGNs, they should generate a report card. You should try to be as accurate as possible there as the algorithm takes those values into account when generating results.
 
Hey there. I'm unsure as to how to add ratings to the PGN. Another topic or can you explain?

PGN are just text files, so you can open them in any simple text editor, like Notepad or WordPad, for example.
I'll use the PGN I posted earlier (this one):

[Event "Petroff's Defense"]
[Site "Phone App"]
[Date "2023.05.14"]
[Round "1"]
[White "ChessClub-Candidate (L7)"]
[Black "Me"]
[Result "0-1"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. d4 Nxe4 4. dxe5 Bc5 5. Qe2 Bxf2+ 6. Qxf2 Nxf2 7. Kxf2 d6
8. Bg5 Qd7 9. exd6 Qxd6 10. Bd3 O-O 11. Be3 Re8 12. Bc1 Bg4 13. h3 Bxf3 14. gxf3
Nc6 15. a3 Rad8 16. h4 Qf6 17. Bf1 Nd4 18. f4 Nxc2 19. Kg3 Nxa1 20. f5 Qxf5 21.
Nc3 h6 22. Bf4 Nb3 23. Bb5 c6 24. Bf1 Nd4 25. Bg2 Ne2+ 26. Nxe2 Rxe2 27. Bf3
Rxb2 28. Re1 Qg6+ 29. Kh3 Rb3 30. Re3 Rxe3 31. Bxe3 Rd3 32. Kh2 Rxe3 33. h5 Qc2+
34. Kg3 Qd1 35. a4 Qxf3+ 36. Kh2 Re2+ 37. Kg1 Qf2+ 38. Kh1 Qg2# {Black mates}
0-1

All you should have to do is add the PGN tags for WhiteELO and BlackELO, like this (I've bolded them so they stand out):

[Event "Petroff's Defense"]
[Site "Phone App"]
[Date "2023.05.14"]
[Round "1"]
[White "ChessClub-Candidate (L7)"]
[Black "Me"]

[WhiteELO "1500"]

[BlackELO "1500"][Result "0-1"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. d4 Nxe4 4. dxe5 Bc5 5. Qe2 Bxf2+ 6. Qxf2 Nxf2 7. Kxf2 d6
8. Bg5 Qd7 9. exd6 Qxd6 10. Bd3 O-O 11. Be3 Re8 12. Bc1 Bg4 13. h3 Bxf3 14. gxf3
Nc6 15. a3 Rad8 16. h4 Qf6 17. Bf1 Nd4 18. f4 Nxc2 19. Kg3 Nxa1 20. f5 Qxf5 21.
Nc3 h6 22. Bf4 Nb3 23. Bb5 c6 24. Bf1 Nd4 25. Bg2 Ne2+ 26. Nxe2 Rxe2 27. Bf3
Rxb2 28. Re1 Qg6+ 29. Kh3 Rb3 30. Re3 Rxe3 31. Bxe3 Rd3 32. Kh2 Rxe3 33. h5 Qc2+
34. Kg3 Qd1 35. a4 Qxf3+ 36. Kh2 Re2+ 37. Kg1 Qf2+ 38. Kh1 Qg2# {Black mates}
0-1

And then save the file. After that, upload it to your account. When I do that, the listing of games in my Library "games list" shows the games as being rated, with the appropriate ELO values.

Unfortunately, that didn't seem to fix things for me and the game still wouldn't give an estimated ELO at the end of the review.

However, when I then open that game from the Library list in the Analysis tab, and check the Details, the ELO values are not showing there (and the names of the players at the board don't show any ELO values - they should be in brackets beside the names). If I then enter 1500 into the ratings boxes of the Detail tab, that's when the board will show the ELO beside the player names.
That might indicate that the ELO values have to be entered there manually in order for the review algorithm to utilize them and produce an estimated value, but I can't check that until tomorrow.

AngusByers

Ah, I think I've worked something out.

The ELO tags are case sensitive in the analysis section, but not the library listing section!

Where I put 
[WhiteELO "1500"]

[BlackELO "1500"]

I should have put

[WhiteElo "1500"]

[BlackElo "1500"]

notice the "LO" in ELO is now "lo" as in Elo, and now the Elo values show up in both the Library listing of the games, and also get imported into the Details Tab when I go to perform an analysis.

I still don't know if that will result in an Estimated ELO being produced, but I have high hopes to suspect it will do the trick.

Will report tomorrow when I've had a chance to test it.