The correct pronunciation of the word "fianchetto"

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Tyrrhenus

Okay, I am going to be pedantic so please be patient with me Laughing. As an Italian living in the UK I often have to listen to words derived from Italian funnily mispronounced (and to be fair I mispronounce a lot of english words... but I do my best! Cool) but I would like if, at least when it comes to chess, english-speaking commentators, video-bloggers etc pronounced "fianchetto" properly!!

The word "fianchetto" derives from the italian "fianco", which means "side" (the literal translation would be "little side" or "on the side") and in Italian the letters "che" are pronounced "ke". So this word should be pronounced "fianKEtto".

This is it Laughing

r_k_ting

Wrong.

Both pronunciations are acceptable in English. Why? Because we are speaking English, not Italian.

goldendog

besides, he just pinched my butt.

Tyrrhenus

I know, I know, I did not mean to not recognise that english is spoken in every corner of Earth and Italian only in the boot-shaped little land in Europe. I was just pointing out how "fianchetto" shoud be pronounced if the correct pronunciation was used. (or if the international language was, well, Italian) Plus the several smileys I put around showed I don't think it as a big deal, just a language weirdness Smile

r_k_ting

It has nothing to do with how widely spoken a language is. When words are borrowed from one language into another, the pronunciation is always changed. This is always true.

jaaas
r_k_ting wrote:

Wrong.

Both pronunciations are acceptable in English. Why? Because we are speaking English, not Italian.

I don't think that it is justified to call the pronunciation that is prevalent amongst English-speakers "correct" just because it is prevalent. As a matter of fact, the most likely reason for this seems to be an intuitive belief amongst them that it is how the word is actually properly pronounced (which happens not to be the case). I strongly doubt it came about by someone saying "yeah, the Italian word is pronounced so-and-so, but us anglophone folks are going to pronounce it differently, because, why the heck not" and that sticking somehow.

jaaas
r_k_ting wrote:

It has nothing to do with how widely spoken a language is. When words are borrowed from one language into another, the pronunciation is always changed. This is always true.

That hardly seems to be the case, given that somehow "j'adoube" and "en prise" are being pronounced properly as the French would do (at least not blatanly changing phonemes like in the "fianchetto" case).

r_k_ting

Dictionary disagrees.

[ˌfɪənˈtʃɛtəʊ -ˈkɛtəʊ]

Tyrrhenus

yes, jaaas, I agree with you. It happens the same with Latin words. In italian we pronounce Latin words as ancient romans used to do (this is made extremely easy by the fact that Italian derives straight from Latin), but in the english-spoken world Latin words are pronounced in the english way. Which is accepted universally but does not mean it is correct. Anyhow I did not want to start a quarrel about languages! Laughing

Tyrrhenus

The dictionary disagrees in the way that it reports how a word is pronounced. I was just saying how it should be pronounced following the rules of the language from which a world derives from

TimoGlock

Well, I am concerned that my native language (Russian) has many foreign words. Some of them are pronounced like in the origin:

pager — пейджер

But some of them are pronounced in a different way than in the origin:

лейб-медик leib-medik (a doctor of the Tsar in Russia before 1917), where "leib" is taken from German (der Leib — body). In German Leib is pronounced [lajb], but in Russian [lejb].

So we see that some foreign words are pronounced in a different way than in their origin (in order to make it more convenient). I think BOTH fianCHEtto and fianKEtto pronunciations are right.

Tyrrhenus

Not right, Timo, but acceptable Wink

goldendog

chef. chief.

same word borrowed twice with differing results.

both are correct, right?

r_k_ting

What is acceptable is correct. The English language is defined by usage. There is no such thing as L'Académie anglais. How a word is pronounced in Latin is not relevant, not least because it's a dead language.

cassini_1

Most pros pronounce fianKetto. Anyway it's better to stick to original.

konhidras

fyanketo

Tyrrhenus

@cassini_1: the original is indeed fianKetto! What is more "original" than the original word? Everybody can use the "wrong" (to me) pronunciation and it is fine, but if you talk about what is original, I am afraid you have to start to pronounce it "fianKetto" Laughing

goldendog
r_k_ting wrote:

What is acceptable is correct. The English language is defined by usage. There is no such thing as L'Académie anglais. How a word is pronounced in Latin is not relevant, not least because it's a dead language.

The convention, not so long ago when printed matter dominated, was to italicize foreign words and pronounce them "authentically," while those same words un-italicized were given the more colloquial pronunciation.

Both were correct, though context might demand just one.

Tyrrhenus
manfredmann wrote:
r_k_ting wrote:

What is acceptable is correct. The English language is defined by usage. There is no such thing as L'Académie anglais. How a word is pronounced in Latin is not relevant, not least because it's a dead language.

that's the point, "CH" is acceptable only by an ignoramus

(of course "ignoramus" must be pronounced as iñoramusLaughing)

r_k_ting
manfredmann wrote:

"CH" is acceptable, but only by an ignoramus 

[ˌfɪənˈtʃɛtəʊ -ˈkɛtəʊ]

Not according to the dictionary. -tʃɛtəʊ is in fact the first listed pronunciation. But I guess you can't read IPA. Now who is the ignoramous?