The draw feature on this site needs to change

Maybe you think you're being really clever here...but it's obvious.  Really obvious.

Sockpuppets might not be for you...

btickler,

I am NOT Aquarius550! We are not even going to START a sock-puppet discussion here. I have NEVER been and NEVER will be Aquarius550. Just because we shout out our ideas in a forum whether or not it makes sense to any one else does not make us one and the same person.

Further, Aquarius was simply commenting on our similar personalities. Believe it or not, two people can have similar personalities. And Aquarius was not even trying to be clever. He was just commenting on our similarities. Sheesh.

All I said was that something is obvious...thanks for pointing out what it is.

"Pardon me sir, do you know why I pulled you over tonight?"

"I have NOT been drinking!"

"Okaaay...step out of the car, please." 

yeres30,

There was no "CLAIM DRAW" button. There was only a "DRAW" button.

btickler,

your comment to Aquarius sounded as if you were accusing him of being me.

yeres30,

This had been my first time on chess.com this had happened. Normally, the computer would have terminated the game as a draw as soon as the repetition happened so I had no idea what was going on with the system when the game continued. As I have already shown others, they have explained to me that this is because I must claim a draw. As there is only one draw button and I hit it prior to making my third move repetition knowing that I had intention to make the repetition, the game was essentially over by FIDE and USCF rules as had already pointed out. I am simply antagonistic toward people who keep cherry-picking by trying to argue in defense of chess.com's current draw policy that had this game been played according to FIDE and USCF rules, I would not have even HAD to make my move and if I had made my move resulting in the repetition, my opponent would be able to break the repetition. Therefore, there is no need to say chess.com needs to be an entire stickler on FIDE and USCF rules either.

This is not a forum where you are allowed to make accusations against me or tell me what I did wrong and why this game was not ended as a draw. This is a forum to discuss chess.com's current draw feature and to discuss the potential of changing it. I have presented my full argument in the annotations of the game and in my first comment on this forum. If you want to read that and create an argument in support be my guest. Thus far, all I've seen are comments on what I did wrong to terminate the game as a draw (which was my FIRST TIME this happened on chess.com!!!!!) and/or cherry-picking to support the current draw feature on this site. Your comments are welcome if they contribute to the discussion only!

yeres30,

I may have missed the first set of three-fold repetition, however, I certainly saw the second one. Further, as I also highlighted, chess.com does not let you claim a draw prior to making your move.

Note: 41, 43, and 45 are three-fold repetition as well. If this was OTB, the game would have automatically ended by my claiming a draw and showing my intention to play the move 45. Qa8+ resulting in three-fold repetition. This is a mega-draw.

And I most certainly DID hit the draw button prior to A three-fold repetition though I am certain it was prior to my 45th move. This is NOT a forum for falsely accusing me. This is a problem for discussing chess.com's draw policy on this website. If you want to make false accusations about me, I will block you. I do not need to put up with false accusations.

yeres30,

You are blocked for your FALSE ACCUSATIONS!!!! If you want to make false accusations feel free to start an off topic forum about me where you accuse me of all sorts of things that aren't true. You will no longer be tolerated by me. I am quite aware of when I hit the draw button. You clearly have nothing to contribute to the discussion here. Goodbye.

Yeres30 is just pointing out that if you had clicked the draw button when you said you did, the game would have been drawn.

Anyway why didn't you just click draw after making your move. Always works for me in a 3-fold.

@newengland, you're a bit over the top I think. yeres is right, 44 ...Qd7 was repetition, so if at that point you had actually clicked the button it would have been a draw. This has worked for me every time. It is remotely possible that a glitch happened and for this one game it worked differently for you than it normally does for everyone else, but it's at least as likely that you were mistaken. That's not really a good reason to block people for false accusations.

@Lagomorph, I think he's saying that his opponent moved too quickly and changed the position before he had time to click the button. If that's the case it would be a real problem. I think you should be able to claim the draw by clicking the button then making the move, but if you can't then you need to be able to claim the draw even after the opponent's next move.

Since this is directly analogous to FIDE rules, it would be preferable. But chess.com has seemingly been silent on this issue for several years now, stubbornly refusing to acknowledge that a problem exists.

it is what it is but it still work the same for everyone here. it may be not exactly like fide rules but it's still fair. I do agree that on blitz/bullet if your oppenent has set the premove you may not have the chance to claim the draw right after the your move (at least if you haven't a reaction time under 0.2 seconds)

*0.1s :)

Lagomorph,

As I explained in other comments, this was my first time on chess.com this situation has happened and I wasn't aware that chess.com featured its draw function differently than other engines I've played on (computer chess programs and sites) which would have ended the game automatically at the third repetition. As such, I really wasn't counting when three-fold repetition occurred but I knew that I was about to play a move resulting in three-fold repetition.

r_k_ting,

Glad someone backs me that a problem exists and that most are stubbornly refusing a problem exists.

The way it works is if a position has not been repeated 3 times by BOTH players it is not a 3 fold repetition. Just because white repeated 3 times doesn't make it a draw. If black can avoid with his 3rd move then you cannot claim a draw. Seems obvious enough.

denner90,

It was more like a 4 move repetition and I clicked the draw button prior to my move that resulted in the Qa8+ third repetition. I believe that chess.com's draw feature is set so that a draw cannot be claimed when it is your move which is not in line with FIDE or USCF rules. If this had been an OTB game, I would have told my opponent that my intention was to play this move resulting in third move repetition so I do not want to play that move but enforce this game as a draw instead. If my opponent disputed, I could get an arbiter and tell the arbiter my intention and the arbiter would end the game as a draw as this is in accordance with USCF and FIDE rules preventing me from losing my right to claim a draw if my opponent were to play a move quickly that broke the repetition. Yes, if black can avoid this on his third move prior to white being able to click the draw button on here, then white seems not to be able to claim a draw. As on this site the player has to claim the draw prior, black could simply have pre-move on and essentially game the system. There is no protection against a player losing his right to claim a draw.

"Fairness" is irrelevant. Properly following the rules is what's important. A chess website where en passant is not allowed is "fair" on both players, but it's not chess.

Like it or not, the 3 move repetition rule is part of the game. It is important that we be able to claim it whenever we are entitled. After all, what could be more important than a rule which ends the game and determines its outcome?

Also, the problem is not just in blitz. In correspondence, your opponent can also use premove to deny your claim.

That isn't right. If white makes a move so that black is in the exact same position with the exact same legal moves for the third time, it should be a draw, regardless of what black has done. But the draw, as implemented right now, has to be claimed before black moves unless black continues the repetition. As mentioned before, it should be possible to claim the draw by clicking the button then making the move (has anyone actually made sure this doesn't work?).

I believe you missed your chance to claim your draw in this game several times.

1 rep:

40.Qe8+ Qd7

2 rep:

42.Qe8+ Qd7

3 rep:

44.Qe8+ Qd7

Click Draw click it! click it!

You didn't click it!

REP BROKEN!

If you mention the word draw at this position the game ends in draw.

Whether it is claimed or offered any button that says draw will draw this position exactly at this spot!

I am sorry but I do not believe you touched the word "draw" after the move 44...Qd7.

I do not believe you claimed it, offered it, or even tippy toed near the draw button at move 44.

I believe you offered a draw at move 45.Qa8+.

Which is exactly were you begin your text in this game.

I believe you offered draw at move 45.Qa8+

Which broke the last 3 move rep.

REP BROKEN!

Your draw offer at move 45.Qa8+ would show up as "newengland7 has offered a draw".

Which like you say in your text is offering a draw prior to the next rep coming up.

You have already lost your previous rep.

The next sequence:

1 rep:

41.Qa8+ Qb7

2 rep:

43.Qa8+ Qb7

3 rep:

45.Qa8+ Qb7

*Note* You offered a draw at the point I colored in red. Which is after the last rep and before the next rep.

3 rep:

45.Qa8+ Qb7

Click Draw click it! click it!

You didn't click it!

You didn't do it!

No text says you did it.

REP BROKEN!

The next sequence:

1 rep:

42.Qe8+ Qd7

2 rep:

44.Qe8+ Qd7

3 rep:

46.Qe8+ Qd7

Click Draw click it! click it!

You didn't click it!

You didn't do it!

No text says you did it.

REP BROKEN!

The next sequence:

1 rep:

43.Qa8+ Qb7

2 rep:

45.Qa8+ Qb7

3 rep:

47.Qa8+ Qb7

*Note* the moves labeled in red font are when you pushed draw in weird spots. You need to work on your drawing rythm!

*Note* your opponent played 47...Kd6

Deviation!

REP BROKEN!

No other reps followed after the lost chances.

The above game is not an example of why chess.com draw feature needs to change.

Even little kids on chesskids.com understand how 3 fold rep works.

They are not even tall enough to see over the subways counter to see there food being made. Yet, They understand how 3 fold rep works.

3 moves you

3 moves them

Push DRAW the game is drawn.

It will work always!

Even when chess.com is lagging the 3 move rep works in those exact window positions.

Even on a bad day when the game is glitching 3 move rep works.

It works out of momentum in that position.

Push The Button! DRAW

You don't need a fancy name for the button DRAW!

You don't need to call it Claim DRAW or Offer DRAW.

It doesn't have to flash at you in red letters.

It doesn't have to have glitter on it.

It doesn't need sparkles.

It is 1 word that has been around for centuries DRAW!

Click it! Click it! Click it!

The only things that happen in this game were:

BROKEN REPS

and a

BROKEN HEART

As for the part about calling over an arbiter.

The reason you do that is to have a witness!

It avoids the human element of lieing!

If you don't call over the arbiter and you make your move than say draw.

Your opponent may make his move after you.

An if no one is around present watching what just happen.

You will have no witness.

So when you call over the arbiter at that point.

Your opponent could say you never said draw.

Which puts the arbiter in a tough position.

Since he doesn't know who is lieing and who is telling the truth.

X_Player_J_X,

I clicked the draw button prior to making one of my moves that resulted in repetition. As was mentioned, I was unfamiliar that I was the one who had to click the draw button when third repetition was reached. Most computer engines I've played on automatically end the game as a draw when third repetition is reached. chess.com is the first I've played on that doesn't happen. Though I was not technically in the wrong as when I clicked the draw button, if this was OTB, I could have informed my opponent that the game will be a draw via third repetition rule because this is the move I am going to make so let us end the game as draw here. If he declined, I could get an arbiter and explain my intention and the arbiter would not require me to play the move but would end the game as a draw.