this should be a draw... right?

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Avatar of nonowho

 

This was the final secquence of moves in a game of 5min blitz I just played. I was under time pressure and my opponent just kept on playing those moves. I offered a draw and he declined and eventually he won on time. somehow I feel cheated out of the rightful draw it should have been.

arn't there rules concerning this?

Avatar of Scottrf

The position has to repeat 3 times or 50 moves without a pawn move or capture for you to be able to claim a draw. It's not a rightful draw until one of these happen, and winning on time in this sort of situation is just part of blitz chess.

The position looks winnable to me for white (not much analysis), just hiding the king behind the black pawns, or blocking a check with a pawn.

Avatar of AngeloPardi

When your opponent has repeated three time, you can obtain a draw by hitting the button draw.
  

Avatar of nonowho

I played this in live chess here at chess.com (I forgot to menchion that)

I thought that it dit repeat at least three times. But I must have been mistaken because the system didn't catch it.

here is the game:

http://www.chess.com/livechess/game?id=550811046

Avatar of waffllemaster

For reference, a queen+ pawn vs queen position is a draw when the weaker side's king is in front of the pawn.

For rook and knight pawns, the weaker side's king can be nearly anywhere on the board and it's still a draw.

Anyway, as it turns out, positions like these (even 4 vs 3 on one side) are draws.  As you might imagine creating a passer doesn't help.  The main defensive resource is perpetual check by the way.

Avatar of MrEdCollins

WHEN did you click the draw button offer the draw?  At what move number?  Do you remember?

My guess is you only offered a draw once, and it was prior to the position having been repeated three times.  Your opponent declined.  But later, I can see there were several opportunities to click the draw button again, and have a draw declared automatically - your opponent wouldn't have had a say in the matter.

Again, when a position has repeated three times, with the same player to move each time (and the positions can occur at any time  throughout the game... they don't have be consecutive), a draw can be declared but you have to ASK for it.  (Click the button)  The draw doesn't happen on its own.

Avatar of Scottrf

It certainly didn't repeat 3 times in the sequence you posted.

Avatar of waffllemaster

Black to move after move 0, 3, and 7  :p

Avatar of cshuenss

not 3 times

Avatar of Scottrf
waffllemaster wrote:

Black to move after move 0, 3, and 7  :p


Good point :S

Avatar of xxvalakixx

"menchion" I like it. Laughing

It seems to me that here there is no draw after threefold repetition in a blitz game. 

Avatar of AndyClifton
Estragon wrote:
I never assume my opponent knows anything about endings...

I never assume I know anything about endings either!

Avatar of jack_iles

When there is a positon repeated 3 times, click draw, if your want to claim a draw.

Avatar of waffllemaster
Estragon wrote:

 I never assume my opponent knows anything about endings, and I have won many games I should have drawn or lost because of that attitude.  A "theoretical draw" may be the case according to tablebases, but the given position has NINE pieces, it is way too early to say.

White could have escaped the checks easily with Kg4 after either check.  If he merely repeats and doesn't press the draw button, and then loses on time, he has no real complaint.

 

Incidentally, even with RP or NP, there are many ways to win if the opponent screws up - usually by allowing a Queen trade.  Happens all the time in practice.  NEVER agree to a draw in a Queen ending with a pawn up UNLESS they can force it - and even then, make them force it!

Haha, no way am I agreeing to a theoretical draw.  I'm no endgame master by a long shot, but relatively speaking I've spent more time with the endgame than any other study material.  To throw all that effort away by not testing my opponent in every way I can think of would be disgraceful Smile  And if my opponent has the edge I expect him to do the same to me.

I was just giving a point of reference.  Esp. because Scottrf said he thought white should win.  White may win here, but if in analysis you had the option of going into this endgame or a different one it's useful to be able to weigh your winning chances.

Avatar of nonowho
MrEdCollins wrote:

WHEN did you click the draw button offer the draw?  At what move number?  Do you remember?

My guess is you only offered a draw once, and it was prior to the position having been repeated three times.  Your opponent declined.  But later, I can see there were several opportunities to click the draw button again, and have a draw declared automatically - your opponent wouldn't have had a say in the matter.

Again, when a position has repeated three times, with the same player to move each time (and the positions can occur at any time  throughout the game... they don't have be consecutive), a draw can be declared but you have to ASK for it.  (Click the button)  The draw doesn't happen on its own.

 

This is very helpful, I didn't know you had to claim a draw on the chess.com page - I thought it happened automaticly thanks

Avatar of nonowho
Scottrf wrote:

It certainly didn't repeat 3 times in the sequence you posted.


this secquence of moves was then repeated more than 3 times in the game

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