Sorry, I misunderstood you, Mark. EscheRehcse is correct. Within the USCF Issues forum the controversy is discussed and to some degree explained (after all the contract was signed in the 70s) but there is no link to the rulebook exclusively for USCF members.
USCF gouging members who just want to learn the rules
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My understanding is that USCF's contract with the publisher prohibts them from distributing the rulebook.
Dec 16, 2011
0
#24
GenericZebra wrote:
My understanding is that USCF's contract with the publisher prohibts them from distributing the rulebook.
Even if this is true, it doesn't provide any excuse. Nobody forced them to enter into such a dumb contract.
The fact remains that in every analogous example I know of (FIDE, USGA, ACBL, etc.), they don't have this problem and they provide the rules online free of charge.
Dec 16, 2011
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#25
Hindsight is 50/50. As I mentioned previously, the contract originated in the 70s when electronic copyrights were not on everyone's mind. It is easy too see for sure why no attention was paid to the clause considering there were plenty of folks out there that thought computers were just some funny gadget that could never do anything useful. It sucks for sure but it is what it is now. I don't think it would be a wise investment of membership dues to engage in a legal battle with questionable return.
Dec 16, 2011
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#26
I am fairly familiar with the whole USCF versus Polgar saga and have read the opinion of the gentleman expressed in the link you provided back when it was published (it is now a couple of years old). I should add I disagree with him. If we really want to rehash this story one of the current developments is that the former system admin for Polgar pled guilty to one count of misdemeanor. The legal process still continues even though no longer with the USCF as a party in it. In my opinion, it is fair to say that the overwhelming responsibility for the money spent on the USCF versus Polgar lawsuits does not lie with USCF.
What planet are you guys on?
The USCF rule book is 250+ pages, it's not digitized, the Federation doesn't own the publishing rights, and you want it for free?
Continental Chess (which runs many of the big tourneys in the U.S.) will often pass out "its rules" for tournaments. It's about 2 pages long. It's a quick read, with more than you'll need to know.
With that in hand, you'll have everything you need to know in order to participate actively and effectively in any officially rated tourney in the U.S.
The Official Rule Book is one great snooze, it's designed specifically for runnning tournaments. If you're dumb enough to want it, then go buy it somewhere.
Why you would want to buy it is still a mystery. It's basically useless for players.
So give this troll inspired thread a rest, please.
THat the USCF doesn't own publishing rights to their own intellectual property shows exactly what a poor organization they are. End of story.
Dec 16, 2011
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#30
kborg wrote:
What planet are you guys on?
The USCF rule book is 200+ pages, it's not digitized, the Federation doesn't own the publishing rights, but you want it for free?
Continental Chess (which runs many of the big tourneys in the U.S.) will often pass out "its rules" for that particular tournament. It's about 2 pages long.
And that's all you really need to know to participate actively and effectively in any officially rated tourney in the U.S.
The Official Rule Book is one great snooze, it's designed specifically for runnning tournaments. If you dumb enough to want it, then buy it.
And give this troll inspired thread a rest, please.
And just what is it that makes this thread "troll" inspired (other than that you disagree with it)?
I made this thread because I was hoping some people might agree with me and do the same thing I did (contact the USCF about the matter). Certainly nothing you or anyone else has said has given me cause to change my mind. In fact quite the contrary since other than the copyright issue (which I already addressed) the only apparent reason the ones who have disagreed have done so is because they don't think we "need to know". Not a very convincing argument.
Another thing worth knowing is how to offer a draw. Technically you can only offer a draw after making your move and before you hit the clock. Your opponent can then accept the offer or reject it by making a move. But they do have the right to see your move before considering a draw offer. And you have to make the offer on your own time. Only then can you hit the clock.
If one organization puts the rules online for free, the other doesn't really have a good excuse not to imo. Regardless of what's in the book. Thank you for bringing this to my attention OP.
European chess federations have public support. The USCF does not, and it is cash strapped.
Without lots of "volunteer time" by the TDs, oganized chess in the U.S. would be even more scarce. Thankfully the TD provide a public good, and (in most cases) make a small return on their time.
It's unfortunate that so many "chess players" and "free gamers" consistently argue lame sylogistic assertions like "A" (if Fide is free) then "B" (USCF should be free), completely devoid of either history or context.
The lawsuits mentioned earlier in this thread testify to the nitpicking, argumentative, ligtigious nature of chess players, both inside the Federation's ruling councils, and inside what I have called "this Troll based thread."
To wit, as you say..."no one is willing to change their mind."
Yes, chess players and chess gamers are notoriously contrarian. And that's one big reason why the Rule Book is so long. All these folks, you and me included, are so contentious and nitpicking, the rules need to be very long.
So if it weren't for the TDs, and other altruistic people, chess would be even more of a struggle financially for the Federation.
Do you even participate in tournaments? But even if you did, you wouldn't need a rule book, free or otherwise.
Or do you get all your stuff pirated free from the web?
Either way the "demand" that because this, then that, and..."I won't change my mind"... is just another example not being able to look further than your own personal biases.
Yes, USCF products are "overpriced." So buy elsewere, or on Amazon. And stop whining about why the rule book should be free. The Rule Book is for TDs, not players.
You don't seem to understand; you don't need the 250+ page "Rule Book."
Perhaps you might consider looking a little further than just to the end of your nose. And you might do something other than lodge your cheap complains for more "free goods," or pirated goods over the internet.
But in any case it's not becoming of you. It's Troll-like behaviour. And many of the threads on this site are chockablock with it.
So read the hot topic, "All Trolls Please Post in Here," and we can all laugh at ourselves, and sleep easier at night.
Dec 16, 2011
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#34
I am not sure, kborg, why you feel the need to be so combative towards the OP. It is fair to ask questions. While I personally tend to refrain from including loaded charges if I want to know something I can see where the impression of "gouging" comes from. You cannot expect that folks outside of a small circle of insiders know that the USCF doesn't own the copyrights to the rulebook. Frankly, you wrote more to deserve the label that you so easily dished out. At any rate, you are doing little to help promote your points whatever they may have been.
Dec 16, 2011
0
#35
Martin_Stahl wrote:
I'm pretty sure a new edition is being worked on but I don't know if it will be printed or available online.
This topic on the USCF forums was what I was thinking of when I posted the above. It appears there will be an electronic version of the rule book; not sure if it will be available online for free or not though.
Fine, I apologize for my apparent "combativeness" against the pursuit and insistence for a "free book," that no one other than TDs actually needs, and from an organization that basically can't afford to digitize it.
And I won't "bother" this thread again, and possibly ruffle someone's feathers.
Because, after all, "someone only just asked a question," but somehow titled his thread with the word "gouging," as part of a declarative sentence.
Indeed, it was only "just a question."
Best wishes to all additional contributors to this thread.
Guy must work for USCF.
Re: the assertion from @ivandh (above), about working for the USCF--
No. I'm just a USCF member. Sorry to disappoint.
The OP, however, looks to be a 51 year old non-member of USCF, who joined Chess.com about a month ago, and apparently brought with him a big axe to grind.
Or "gouge," as in the title of his thread.
Dec 16, 2011
0
#39
kborg wrote:
European chess federations have public support. The USCF does not, and it is cash strapped.
Without lots of "volunteer time" by the TDs, oganized chess in the U.S. would be even more scarce. Thankfully the TD provide a public good, and (in most cases) make a small return on their time.
It's unfortunate that so many "chess players" and "free gamers" consistently argue lame sylogistic assertions like "A" (if Fide is free) then "B" (USCF should be free), completely devoid of either history or context.
The lawsuits mentioned earlier in this thread testify to the nitpicking, argumentative, ligtigious nature of chess players, both inside the Federation's ruling councils, and inside what I have called "this Troll based thread."
To wit, as you say..."no one is willing to change their mind."
Yes, chess players and chess gamers are notoriously contrarian. And that's one big reason why the Rule Book is so long. All these folks, you and me included, are so contentious and nitpicking, the rules need to be very long.
So if it weren't for the TDs, and other altruistic people, chess would be even more of a struggle financially for the Federation.
Do you even participate in tournaments? But even if you did, you wouldn't need a rule book, free or otherwise.
Or do you get all your stuff pirated free from the web?
Either way the "demand" that because this, then that, and..."I won't change my mind"... is just another example not being able to look further than your own personal biases.
Yes, USCF products are "overpriced." So buy elsewere.
Ditto with the rule book.
What you don't seem to understand is that you don't need the Rule Book.
Perhaps you might consider looking a little further than just to the end of your nose. And you might do something other than lodge your cheap complains for more free goods.
But in any case it's not becoming of you. And that's just more Troll like behaviour. Many of the threads are chockablock with it.
But read the hot topic, "All Trolls Please Post in Here," and we can all laugh at ourselves, and sleep easier at night.
You seem to have a talent for digging irrelevant information out of profiles and asking irrelevant questions (as if whether the one making the assertion plays in tournaments has anything to do with the validity of the assertion) but when it comes to reading comprehension you are sorely lacking. Or maybe you are so hard up to defend this indefensible policy you just like to attribute straw men.
Specifically please show me where I ever said I won't change my mind. Or rather does someone need to explain to you the difference between what I did say and what you want me to have said?
No. What you see online (in the link I provided above) are excerpts provided by Google books with the permission of the publisher (Random House). Think of it as a preview as you commonly see on Amazon e.g. To get the latest and complete edition you have to buy the book. Again, as the USCF does not hold the copyrights it is not in the position to publish the complete rulebook online. They could try and attempt but have to consider the potential legal ramifications. Anyone working for non-profits is going to be hesitant to pick a potential legal fight. I know this is all pretty complicated but that's about as good as I can describe it.