Was Alekhine assassinated?

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Avatar of autobunny
darwinwasright wrote:
autobunny wrote:
darwinwasright wrote:

Koltanowski personally told me that he killed himself.  Alekhine just wasn't important enough to murder.

So he did an alekhine gun on his own throat with 3 torn pieces of steak? 

I told the forum what kolty told me.  trying to be funny about a tragic death even if 70+ years ago is immature.

No you told us more.  And the joke was on you, not alekhine. Stop projecting. 

Avatar of autobunny
darwinwasright wrote:
autobunny wrote:
darwinwasright wrote:
autobunny wrote:
darwinwasright wrote:

Koltanowski personally told me that he killed himself.  Alekhine just wasn't important enough to murder.

So he did an alekhine gun on his own throat with 3 torn pieces of steak? 

I told the forum what kolty told me.  trying to be funny about a tragic death even if 70+ years ago is immature.

No you told us more.  And the joke was on you, not alekhine. Stop projecting. 

you are being an attention seeking autojerk grow up

Name calling when all else fails. OK. 

Avatar of ChessieSystem101
cleosvaldo wrote:

The theory that the soviet kill him makes sense. After all, if Stalin kill ALL members of the original Central Comitee members of Bolshevik party (except himself and Lenin), why he wouldn't kill a chess player to make way for his players?

No comment

Avatar of Optimissed

I told the forum what kolty told me. trying to be funny about a tragic death even if 70+ years ago is immature.>>

For crying out loud, lighten up.

Avatar of JamieDelarosa

Speaking about "tragic" deaths and Soviets, Stalin was reportedly quoted as saying, "One death is a tragedy; a million deaths are a statistic."  Life was cheap to the Communists.

Avatar of JogoReal

António de Oliveira Salazar interest in chess was a clear 0 (zero), Josef Stalin interest in chess was like what? In his last games Alekhine draw with people as notable as Perez, Frias and Lupi. Stalin was so worried...

Avatar of JamieDelarosa
darwinwasright wrote:

Koltanowski personally told me that he killed himself.  Alekhine just wasn't important enough to murder.

I believe he told you that, but how would Koltanowski know?  He was on chess tour in Central America when the Nazis invaded Belgium, and avoided the Holocaust.  We can place him in NYC in 1944, where he met his future wife.  If he still had surviving contacts in Europe in 1946, his knowledge of Alekhine's death was hearsay.

Avatar of JamieDelarosa
JogoReal wrote:

António de Oliveira Salazar interest in chess was a clear 0 (zero), Josef Stalin interest in chess was like what? In his last games Alekhine draw with people as notable as Perez, Frias and Lupi. Stalin was so worried...

The Soviets coveted the championship title for its propaganda value, and the Chekists in the government had a score to settle with the "traitor."  The immediate post-war political situation in Soviet-occupied  Europe was tense, especially Germany, Austria, Czechoslovakia, and the Balkans.  Intrigue was everywhere

Avatar of JogoReal

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1013633

Lupi even won a game to Alekhine in 1946. Francisco Lupi was an amateur, can't be compared with Botvinnik.

Avatar of JamieDelarosa
ghost_of_pushwood wrote:

Okay, so maybe Kolty wasn't there.  The point is, he had it all memorized!

 

Greatest blindfold player of all time - outstanding memory

Avatar of varelse1
JogoReal wrote:

Alekhine was never a politician or had a "political blog" or something. He was also easy to beat for the young generation of top GM, he was in poor health etc. He was almost an obscure and forgotten person. The world was moving fast to another big confrontation and he was not in cross-hairs. Hard to believe.

He actually did write several political articles during the Nazi occupation of France, wherein he claimed Jewish players were ruining the game of chess, with their cowardly playing styles.

Although Alekhine later denied writing these articles, the manuscripts for them were found in his apartment, after his death,

Avatar of JogoReal
varelse1 escreveu:
JogoReal wrote:

Alekhine was never a politician or had a "political blog" or something. He was also easy to beat for the young generation of top GM, he was in poor health etc. He was almost an obscure and forgotten person. The world was moving fast to another big confrontation and he was not in cross-hairs. Hard to believe.

He actually did write several political articles during the Nazi occupation of France, wherein he claimed Jewish players were ruining the game of chess, with their cowardly playing styles.

Although Alekhine later denied writing these articles, the manuscripts for them were found in his apartment, after his death,

Maybe he wrote the articles. Or is it just one article? Anyway, if my memory is right, this is the first time I read about "the manuscripts for them were found in his apartment, after his death". In fact he died in an hotel room in Lisboa and at that time he had no house or apartment of his own.

Avatar of autobunny

http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/extra/alekhine.html

Avatar of autobunny
ghost_of_pushwood wrote:

Placed there no doubt by Jews!

Yes, Jewish players have indeed ruined the game of chess for the rest of us (with all their dastardly and insidious talent for it!).

especially orange jews.

Avatar of JogoReal

From a historian perspective, there is no document, only one or two ancient testimonies saying they saw that kind of manuscript. Quoting from  your source "Although, as things stand, it is difficult to construct much of a defence for Alekhine, only the discovery of the articles in his own handwriting will settle the matter beyond all doubt."

It is known that he lived and worked (played chess) inside the Reich, maybe he wrote some articles into the Reich ideologies, but he denied it publicly.

Avatar of JogoReal

Yes, seen from your perspective. And your hypothesis can't be excluded. My perspective is more like: we are in 1946, the II Great War ended and who is that guy in Lisboa? He looks like being 68 but he is 54 and the doctor gave him some months still to live with a liver sickness related to heavy drinking. He is an embarrassment for the world chess circus, what to do with him? The chess ambassadors can't agree on a solution...

Avatar of JogoReal

From what I know of Alekhine he had only one true enemy in his life, and that was the Soviet State. He would be a collaborator to any political entity that promised to help bring the USSR state down and bring back the old Russian Empire. He belonged by ancestry to the old/very old Russian nobility.

Avatar of pfren
Savage47 έγραψε:

It is known that he lived and worked (played chess) inside the Reich, maybe he wrote some articles into the Reich ideologies, but he denied it publicly.

The vast majority of people who supported the Nazis did so because they opposed communism and the USSR. The Catholic church, the British king and a huge number of wealthy and powerful Americans supported the Nazis. At a certain point though, people realized Hitler was getting too powerful and that's when Germany became the bigger threat. It wasn't because the nazis were more evil it was because the nazis were more powerful. 

I wouldn't try to read too much into "nazi supporter" The truth is the far left killed vastly more people in the 20th century yet left wingers like Bernie Sanders wear it like a badge of honor,  I disagree with both ideologies but fascism is certainly the lesser of two evils. Most people don't understand history or politics and don't understand that both the EU and US are largely fascist today. While I don't agree with it it's certainly better than far left places like North Korea. 

 

Sanders a left winger? That's a good laugh.

 

Anyway, it depends on your view of things. For the average Tea Party moron, Trump may well be labelled as a commie.

Avatar of pfren
Savage47 έγραψε:
 

Trump was a democrat his entire life until he decided to run for president. 

Facts say he started as a GOP, then to the Reform party, while the Dems and the GOP's again followed. His only stable chartacteristic is his stupidity.

And Bernie Sanders wouldn't even be anticipated as a right-leaning Social Democrat in any European State.

Avatar of pfren

I agree, lessez-faire capitalism is all about freedom:

The freedom of the rich to exploit the poor, to be more precise.