Was Alekhine assassinated?

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JamieDelarosa
darwinwasright wrote:

Koltanowski personally told me that he killed himself.  Alekhine just wasn't important enough to murder.

I believe he told you that, but how would Koltanowski know?  He was on chess tour in Central America when the Nazis invaded Belgium, and avoided the Holocaust.  We can place him in NYC in 1944, where he met his future wife.  If he still had surviving contacts in Europe in 1946, his knowledge of Alekhine's death was hearsay.

JamieDelarosa
JogoReal wrote:

António de Oliveira Salazar interest in chess was a clear 0 (zero), Josef Stalin interest in chess was like what? In his last games Alekhine draw with people as notable as Perez, Frias and Lupi. Stalin was so worried...

The Soviets coveted the championship title for its propaganda value, and the Chekists in the government had a score to settle with the "traitor."  The immediate post-war political situation in Soviet-occupied  Europe was tense, especially Germany, Austria, Czechoslovakia, and the Balkans.  Intrigue was everywhere

JogoReal

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1013633

Lupi even won a game to Alekhine in 1946. Francisco Lupi was an amateur, can't be compared with Botvinnik.

JamieDelarosa
ghost_of_pushwood wrote:

Okay, so maybe Kolty wasn't there.  The point is, he had it all memorized!

 

Greatest blindfold player of all time - outstanding memory

varelse1
JogoReal wrote:

Alekhine was never a politician or had a "political blog" or something. He was also easy to beat for the young generation of top GM, he was in poor health etc. He was almost an obscure and forgotten person. The world was moving fast to another big confrontation and he was not in cross-hairs. Hard to believe.

He actually did write several political articles during the Nazi occupation of France, wherein he claimed Jewish players were ruining the game of chess, with their cowardly playing styles.

Although Alekhine later denied writing these articles, the manuscripts for them were found in his apartment, after his death,

JogoReal
varelse1 escreveu:
JogoReal wrote:

Alekhine was never a politician or had a "political blog" or something. He was also easy to beat for the young generation of top GM, he was in poor health etc. He was almost an obscure and forgotten person. The world was moving fast to another big confrontation and he was not in cross-hairs. Hard to believe.

He actually did write several political articles during the Nazi occupation of France, wherein he claimed Jewish players were ruining the game of chess, with their cowardly playing styles.

Although Alekhine later denied writing these articles, the manuscripts for them were found in his apartment, after his death,

Maybe he wrote the articles. Or is it just one article? Anyway, if my memory is right, this is the first time I read about "the manuscripts for them were found in his apartment, after his death". In fact he died in an hotel room in Lisboa and at that time he had no house or apartment of his own.

autobunny

http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/extra/alekhine.html

autobunny
ghost_of_pushwood wrote:

Placed there no doubt by Jews!

Yes, Jewish players have indeed ruined the game of chess for the rest of us (with all their dastardly and insidious talent for it!).

especially orange jews.

JogoReal

From a historian perspective, there is no document, only one or two ancient testimonies saying they saw that kind of manuscript. Quoting from  your source "Although, as things stand, it is difficult to construct much of a defence for Alekhine, only the discovery of the articles in his own handwriting will settle the matter beyond all doubt."

It is known that he lived and worked (played chess) inside the Reich, maybe he wrote some articles into the Reich ideologies, but he denied it publicly.

JogoReal

Yes, seen from your perspective. And your hypothesis can't be excluded. My perspective is more like: we are in 1946, the II Great War ended and who is that guy in Lisboa? He looks like being 68 but he is 54 and the doctor gave him some months still to live with a liver sickness related to heavy drinking. He is an embarrassment for the world chess circus, what to do with him? The chess ambassadors can't agree on a solution...

JogoReal

From what I know of Alekhine he had only one true enemy in his life, and that was the Soviet State. He would be a collaborator to any political entity that promised to help bring the USSR state down and bring back the old Russian Empire. He belonged by ancestry to the old/very old Russian nobility.

pfren
Savage47 έγραψε:

It is known that he lived and worked (played chess) inside the Reich, maybe he wrote some articles into the Reich ideologies, but he denied it publicly.

The vast majority of people who supported the Nazis did so because they opposed communism and the USSR. The Catholic church, the British king and a huge number of wealthy and powerful Americans supported the Nazis. At a certain point though, people realized Hitler was getting too powerful and that's when Germany became the bigger threat. It wasn't because the nazis were more evil it was because the nazis were more powerful. 

I wouldn't try to read too much into "nazi supporter" The truth is the far left killed vastly more people in the 20th century yet left wingers like Bernie Sanders wear it like a badge of honor,  I disagree with both ideologies but fascism is certainly the lesser of two evils. Most people don't understand history or politics and don't understand that both the EU and US are largely fascist today. While I don't agree with it it's certainly better than far left places like North Korea. 

 

Sanders a left winger? That's a good laugh.

 

Anyway, it depends on your view of things. For the average Tea Party moron, Trump may well be labelled as a commie.

pfren
Savage47 έγραψε:
 

Trump was a democrat his entire life until he decided to run for president. 

Facts say he started as a GOP, then to the Reform party, while the Dems and the GOP's again followed. His only stable chartacteristic is his stupidity.

And Bernie Sanders wouldn't even be anticipated as a right-leaning Social Democrat in any European State.

pfren

I agree, lessez-faire capitalism is all about freedom:

The freedom of the rich to exploit the poor, to be more precise.

JogoReal

The photo with the pieces in the start position was most probably composed by Francisco Lupi himself. The photo was taken by Luís Lupi, journalist correspondent of Associated Press and other international news agencies. Luís Lupi probably entered the room with his son Francisco Lupi. Apparently Francisco and his father did the setup to take the photos. The body was found by the barman and a garçon hours before. They used a master key to open the room, because it was closed by inside and Alekhine did not open at 11 a.m. He entered the room the day before around 23.00 and as usual asked for diner to be served at his room. Luís Lupi told that Alekhine still had a portion of meat in his hand when he found him. Alekhine used to eat with his hands using a cutlery when he was in public only. Francisco Lupi knew how to setup a board, he was a chess master and won and draw game with Alekhine in 1946, last year of Alekhine's life. Source:

Markl, Dagoberto L. (2001). Xeque-mate no Estoril. A morte de Alekhine. Porto: Campo de Letras (pp. 140-143).
autobunny
tuna-the-kahuna wrote:

why does a word describing a killing start with two asses ?

It's always been SS

alinfe

Alekhine's death is another example of "where evidence is scant, speculations are rife".

The timing of his death - literally hours after arrangements of the match with Botvinnik having been  completed - was unsettling. He made many enemies by agreeing to collaborate with the Nazis (even though he wasn't the only one to do so) and Stalin certainly wasn't above murder.

But it's also true that he suffered at least one more heart attack (most recent one in late 1945) and like many who lived through the war & post-war period probably didn't enjoyed the most healthy and balanced lifestyle. We tend to forget antibiotics weren't widely available until well after WW2, food shortages affected everyone except the most well do to people, that indoors were kept only slightly warmer than outdoors in the cold seasons, etc

Those who might have been involved in the alleged foul play and cover up are long dead, so the exact details will probably never be known. 

BonTheCat

It's ridiculous to suggest that Alekhine would have stood a chance against Botvinnik and that would have been the reason for assassinating him. What could be better communist propaganda than the good Soviet man (and a Jew to boot) crushing the Nazi collaborator Alekhine? Certainly not the latter's untimely death, leaving the title vacant, that's for sure.

JamieDelarosa
JogoReal wrote:

The photo with the pieces in the start position was most probably composed by Francisco Lupi himself. The photo was taken by Luís Lupi, journalist correspondent of Associated Press and other international news agencies. Luís Lupi probably entered the room with his son Francisco Lupi. Apparently Francisco and his father did the setup to take the photos. The body was found by the barman and a garçon hours before. They used a master key to open the room, because it was closed by inside and Alekhine did not open at 11 a.m. He entered the room the day before around 23.00 and as usual asked for diner to be served at his room. Luís Lupi told that Alekhine still had a portion of meat in his hand when he found him. Alekhine used to eat with his hands using a cutlery when he was in public only. Francisco Lupi knew how to setup a board, he was a chess master and won and draw game with Alekhine in 1946, last year of Alekhine's life. Source:

Markl, Dagoberto L. (2001). Xeque-mate no Estoril. A morte de Alekhine. Porto: Campo de Letras (pp. 140-143).

 

Yes, true

fabelhaft
chessweet wrote:
JamieDelarosa wrote:
JogoReal wrote:

The photo with the pieces in the start position was most probably composed by Francisco Lupi himself. The photo was taken by Luís Lupi, journalist correspondent of Associated Press and other international news agencies. Luís Lupi probably entered the room with his son Francisco Lupi. Apparently Francisco and his father did the setup to take the photos. The body was found by the barman and a garçon hours before. They used a master key to open the room, because it was closed by inside and Alekhine did not open at 11 a.m. He entered the room the day before around 23.00 and as usual asked for diner to be served at his room. Luís Lupi told that Alekhine still had a portion of meat in his hand when he found him. Alekhine used to eat with his hands using a cutlery when he was in public only. Francisco Lupi knew how to setup a board, he was a chess master and won and draw game with Alekhine in 1946, last year of Alekhine's life. Source:

Markl, Dagoberto L. (2001). Xeque-mate no Estoril. A morte de Alekhine. Porto: Campo de Letras (pp. 140-143).

 

Yes, true

it cracks me up when i see someone quote a huge paragraph and then add on two words of agreement. i mean, if you dont have anything valuable to say, why bother wasting all that space instead of just keeping your opinion to yourself?

Indeed.