# What is better??? A queen and a pawn,or two rooks??

ElectricPikachu wrote:
greypenguin wrote:
ThrillerFan wrote:
greypenguin wrote:
MentalWarZone wrote:
The Queen and pawn are stronger than the two rooks. Two rooks and and Queen are even, and Knight and Bishop vs Rook and pawn are even.

Not quite. Count.

Rook= 5

Queen= 9

5+5=10

10>9

That's beginner's crap!

Long story short, it depends on the position.  The more open the board is, the better it is for the Rooks.  If the board is filled with pawns and lacks open files, even if connected, the Queen is better.  If they are connected, the Rooks can likely defend, but do little else.  If they are disconnected, the Queen is highly likely to prevail.  In a more open position with fewer pawns, the Queen is unlikely to win, and can even lose if the Rooks are able to dominate and one of Black's pawns is passed (even if he's a pawn down, it's the passed pawn that matters, not the quantity of pawns.

That point system is beginner's garbage.  Once you learn the right way to play the game, generalizations like that baloney will be a thing of the past for you.  I've seen just a Rook beat two minor pieces (without an extra pawn), I've seen Bishop and Knight beat Rook and two extra Pawns.  I've seen a Queen by herself with no extra Pawn beat two Rooks.  I've had two Pawns beat a Bishop or Knight in an endgame.  All of those scenarios see the player with "less material" prevail!

Lesson learned, material count is bogus.

You say it depend on the position.

But look, Metalwarzone didn't specify a position either so I thought it would be better to appropriate to answer is Rook = 5 Points

Queen =  9 Points

Pawn = 1 point.

So basically it's the same points. But in my opinion you can do the rook roller with two rooks but the queen can move anywhere than the rooks. If you have a pawn and want to get another queen the rook will take at one point if you are in check. And if you fork both rooks at the same time you can take one rook.

dont rely on material count

I didn’t read all the comments, but the answer is simply which side is more active. The more active side is generally superior. The closer to the middle game you are, the less the extra pawn factors in. Likewise, the closer to the endgame you are, the bigger importance the extra pawn has.

Yes

It depends.

Lol this is perfect, people are saying two rooks... in my last blitz game, up a minute on the clock, two rooks for a queen, I offer a draw (idiotically, of course)

*sighs*

As usual the correct answer is that it depends on the position.

ponz111 wrote:

As usual the correct answer is that it depends on the position.

its simple, 'even a single rook is better than the queen' but as always, at a particular position

MaxFlaggedYou wrote:

Lol this is perfect, people are saying two rooks... in my last blitz game, up a minute on the clock, two rooks for a queen, I offer a draw (idiotically, of course)

*sighs*

Heh I think that if you played it perfectly then you can get another queen with the pawn, so i think a queen and a pawn is better, but it's debatable

ahh

There is no definite way to describe whether a Queen and pawn is better than Two Rooks or vice versa. It souley depends on the position.

Lets say the position was fairly closed. Well Major pieces don't neccessarily preform well in closed positions(especially rooks) so it would seem that the Queen and pawn would have the upper hand as the queen has more mobility and coordinated attacks, while mostlikely in closed positions, rooks are pretty much useless as though they may be connected, their coordination would be terrible as without open files the rooks cannot do their work properly.

But lets say there is an open position. If there is an open position it really depends, but chances are if your king is safe and is not exposed for perpetual checks the rooks would dominate as they have more coordination and chances for play, and since there are two rooks and only 1 queen, it would be easier for the rooks to take the extra pawn, since two rooks theoretically is better than a queen. Now in that position the only thing you have to do is win that pawn and you should be able to get winning chances for the endgame if you exchange the rooks for the queen. Once you do that you would be in a king and pawn endgame with an extra pawn up, and if you know how to do basic and advanced pawn endgame techniques then winning with an extra pawn should be fine.

So it depends on the position at hand, there is no immediate answer that can call to this question as there are to many factors and variables that don't make a position so clear cutt. It may seem that a position can win with 2 rooks vs a queen and a pawn until you play it, the same is with a queen and a pawn vs 2 rooks. So it just depends on your knowledge and understanding of positions and the endgame to help you make the best moves in that scenario. And knowing that this is a rarer seen Endgame you are just going to have to make the best moves from what you know, but saying there is a definite answer doesn't seem right, but it does seem better to say there are different factors that give different results for this specific Endgame.