What is "luck" in chess?

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SmyslovFan

Here's a classic case of luck at the highest levels. After the game, Aronian said he'd stepped on a landmine.

There are other examples of luck too, but this was just a case of being in the wrong opening against the wrong opponent on the wrong day:



JeanMichelJamJar

i remember that game the day it was played Smyslovfan! a real beauty! Aronian probably spilled salt before the game.

uri65
Spiritbro77 wrote:

Really? So all your hard work studying and learning the game mean nothing. You're just lucky to see tactics. Lucky to see mistakes....

Your hard work decreases the probability of making mistakes. But it never becomes zero - the chance of making a mistake is always there.

fischerman_bob

Google," ben finegold accidental sacrifice" Ben (a GM) blundered (his words) and yet it turned out to be a brilliant move!!!

PS; I am at the beach using a tablet. I cannot post links.

fischerman_bob

I have done that. After a game and after analysis, I realize that a move I made works in all possible variations. It was brilliant!!! However, I do not get credit for being brilliant because I did not see all possible variations when I made the move.

fischerman_bob

Add "youtube" to ben finegold accidental sacrifice."

bobbyDK

you may call it luck if your opponent plays the only opening you have been reading about and know a lot of variations and traps.

is it also luck if you play a higher rated opponent +400 and he underestimate you and doesn't see the trap you have set and win.( I wouldn't call it skill that I won in a otb tournament against a higher rated - my opponent just thought he was winning.)

killercrab

NO SUCH THING AS LUCK!

JeanMichelJamJar

"he didnt say suck doris"

killercrab

JeanMichelJamJar

loved that guy in "Phonebooth"!

thankyouforthevenom

I've often made mistakes that haven't been costly because the opponent (or computer) hasn't moved how i feared they would do. Most often, it's not a case of them not seeing it, it's a case of me having that move covered elsewhere. But if i didn't realise i'd already got that covered, that's luck right there!

OK, the better the player of the two is more likely to have moves covered all over the board anyway, but if you made a careless move without realising your back was covered, it's still pretty darn lucky in my book!

fabelhaft

Luck is when the opponent couldn't sleep the night before your game, when it is in your game he played the line where he mixed up the move order while he didn't in any of his other games, when it is in the game against you he had forgotten the time control, when he just had a bad quarrel with someone, when he is forfeited for writing notes during the game, when he used his strong prepared novelties in the previous games and didn't have any left, when your opponent needlessly gets in time trouble in only one game in a tournament and it is against you, when your opponent lost his chances to a top finish and is less bothered in the game against you, when he just got disturbing news before the game against you, when he is forfeited because he forgot to turn off his phone and it rings etc etc etc

pt22064

There is "luck" in whom you get paired against.  Even if players are roughly equal in ratings, you could be up against someone playing a style that you feel uncomfortable playing against or somone that you can dominate because of your playing styles.  Also someone could choose an opening that you just studied and know very well or alternatively an opening that you have never seen.

Another luck element is random disturbances or interruptions (e.g., my phone rings in the middle of the game, and I have to answer it because my boss is on the line, or my kids get into a fight or set the house on fire).  Most of the time, such disruptions and interruptions are bad for me (i.e., cause me to lose concentration or lose time while I am dealing with the problem).  On occasion, the interruption is "lucky."  On one occasion, I was about to make a serious blunder when the doorbell rang.  After I answered the door and came back to the computer, I saw that my move was a blunder and made a different.  If the doorbell had not rung, I likely would have made the bad move.

pt22064

If you consider any element outside your control to be "luck," then your innate ability to learn to play chess is due to luck, as your innate intelligence (versus your knowledge or aptitude) is largely a function of who your parents were (i.e., the genes you inherited) and random mutations during meiosis.  My mother always told me that no one has control over how tall they are, how good their eyesight is (well, I suppose it's possible to improve one's eyesight these days using LASIK) or how smart they are.  Accordingly, it makes no sense to take credit for and be proud about one's height or one's intelligence, as these traits are completely one's control.  My mother further taught me that the one thing that I have total control over is how hard I work at something.  so if there is one thing that one can be proud of, it is one's work ethic and perseverance.  All else is luck.

kleelof
pt22064 wrote:

If you consider any element outside your control to be "luck," then your innate ability to learn to play chess is due to luck, as your innate intelligence (versus your knowledge or aptitude) is largely a function of who your parents were (i.e., the genes you inherited) and random mutations during meiosis.  My mother always told me that no one has control over how tall they are, how good their eyesight is (well, I suppose it's possible to improve one's eyesight these days using LASIK) or how smart they are.  Accordingly, it makes no sense to take credit for and be proud about one's height or one's intelligence, as these traits are completely one's control.  My mother further taught me that the one thing that I have total control over is how hard I work at something.  so if there is one thing that one can be proud of, it is one's work ethic and perseverance.  All else is luck.

Sounds like your mother did a lot of talking. Laughing

SmyslovFan

Quite a few GMs have said that in order to win a game you need skill, but to win a tournament, you have to be a bit lucky somewhere along the way.

This is somewhat akin to pro golfers who say that a hole in one is sheer luck, but sticking the ball within a few yards of the pin is skill.

Of course, the better you are, the less you need to rely on luck, or "good players are always lucky."

SmyslovFan
kleelof wrote:
pt22064 wrote:

...

Sounds like your mother did a lot of talking. 

Nah, he just listened to his mother.

kleelof
SmyslovFan wrote:
kleelof wrote:
pt22064 wrote:

...

Sounds like your mother did a lot of talking. 

Nah, he just listened to his mother.

hey. that's a good idea.

Wish I'd have thought of it.

kleelof
Gunvald123 wrote:

you're lucky if you don't face me OTB

You're lucky if you're not the lump of flesh and bones in my profile pic. Laughing