White Stonewall v black stonewall

I must point out that these variations where one plays anything other than the queen pawn first move and follows up immediately with the bishops pawn regardless of what ones opponent does are not considered very strong.  Its not an autopilot opening.

It seems illogical that the first move is an issue, but in the case of the Stonewall systems, I think it is (an issue). If White commits while Black still has fluid pawns, White will have serious problems. I have played both sides extensively; move order is important. As White or Black, I absolutely want d4/d5 in place before I consider the f-pawn advance.

No, that's not a very good comparison. The Berlin endgame is the biggest theoretical problem for 1.e4 players these days. Still it's not considered completely equal, it's just very little for white. That's why top grandmasters recently decided quite often not to enter the endgame. A similar development has taken place quite a few years ago, when it became clear that the Marshall is a very satisfactory answer to the Ruy Lopez. White looked for an edge in other, slower lines.

Colle and London System are not tries for an opening advantage at all, instead of taking as much space with your pawns as you can, white just build a solid triangle and develops pieces.

You say that's what happens when you play for a draw. True, that can happen. But on the other side of the table Short was also playing for a win, certainly expecting the dull exchange variation to appear. He just had a different attitude: Great, I have equalized on move 3, now I can already start looking for more from move 4 on.

Are we seriously to belive that the stonewall for white is busted? Oh what a tragic day! I'll be on suicide watch for the next twenty four hours, goodbye cruel world!  Ill need to learn the bayonet attack for white, how to play gainst the grunefeld and the benoni - its more than any man can take!

No the Stone Wall is not busted if you play someone 300+ points lower than you. The problem is when you start playing people your own strength or stronger than it becomes busted.

Interesting perspective. And amusing.

I felt like it deserved its fair shot. Played it against a couple of people I have won 1 game so far and lost alot lol. It is amusing opening though.

LOL It might be redundant among masters but among fellow patzers, its deadly!

Patzers don't notice that after 4.f4, then ...e5.

Haha do i detect just a hint of sarcasm in your voice?

chess is a game of error, is it not? I canny recall who said it but without error there can be no beauty in chess, something like that.

Ok, no worries.  I just watched a game between two IM's , black used a stonewall but unfortunately he got beat up so I cannot post.

I don't know man in that game you played 9.e4 getting space. It doesn't seem like a true Stone Wall any more lol.

you should see Capablancas treatment of the stonewall, he takes away from the centre on c5 and everything.  e4 is a useful move.

What I mean is your opponent wasn't that challenging/demanding in the center so you could of got more space earlier. I know e4 is useful its just lol. It didn't seem like a true stone wall.

It looked like 2 passive people were playing and having a stare down and than 1 of them fliched and grabbed more space with the move e4. However, I'm not trying to be offensive becuase I understand your trying to experiment lol and I did try it out. It just doesn't seem to be working for me. Something about the move g4 really scares me.

Are you a caveman or a wussy?  Get that g pawn up there to the fourth rank! :P

Telling you man their seems to be some trouble here. that g4 move is not helping we need to do plan B.

Dude although i myself am a super grandpatzer I offer up some little theory to help fellow caveman stoned wallers beat the system.  There are essentially two approaches. One is to allow the capture of our bishop and the other is to prevent it and get a stonewall anyway.

Computer Hard LOL,