Why didn't Fischer play Karpov

Sort:
Georghe

After winning the WC Fischer had gotten so paranoid, he was afraid the KGB wanted to kill him. Therefore the hiding and almost no one knew where he lived, he had broken with most of his friends. In those days it was not so hard to do. These days I doubt it.

Reb
Zobral wrote:

I tend to agree with stuzzicadenti. In my opinion, there is not such a thing as "the best of all times" in any kind of human activity.

 

Fischer was the best for some time, than Karpov, followed by Kasparov. Today Carsel (??) is the #1. In the past, Petrosian, Alekhine, Capablanca, and others had their reign.  

 

Also, I think it is not possible or fair to compare one of these great chessplayers with anyother that live in a different span of time. Life today is, eg, completely different from the Alekhine´s time. Resorurces are others, competitive chessplayers also. 

 

There is a "best" chessplayer for each moment in time.

 

Saludos.

I disagree , sorta .  Usain Bolt is currently the fastest man of all time in 100m sprint and 200m . It would be more accurate to say he is the fastest sprinter to date because in the future someone will probably break his records as well . 

Supdok

always pays to do a little thinking before enlightening the world with your genius, just like Reb did there.

mcris

I already answered that, it was about Karpov seconded by a hypnotist.

enpasson

at the end of the day we will never know fischer was flying high after the spassky match but karpov was at the top of his game as well he was a worthy challanger

Justs99171
alinfe wrote:

The bottom line is that we will never be sure, since we can't travel back to 1975 and get inside Fischer's head.

All the arguments for Fischer being afraid of Karpov or being a weaker player than Karpov can be dismantled just as easily as they are constructed.

People who point to Bobby's 3 year layoff overlook the fact that he went into semi-retirement twice during the 60's, only to come back stronger each time.

Those who still cling to the idea that Karpov was stronger than Fischer in 1975, should be reminded that Karpov himself thought his chances would have been around 40%. Spassky who faced both men only 2 years apart, thought Fischer would have won in 75 but Karpov would have qualified again in 78 and defeated Fischer. Add to that the fact that Karpov never achieved Fischer's peak rating, in spite of a longer career, better training, more advanced chess theory, etc. 

Karpov put it better than anybody else could, when he stated 'I don't want to claim that Fischer was afraid of me. I think Fischer was afraid of himself'.

We do know that Karpov was stronger in 74 than Fischer was in 72. People just get so stuck on Fischer's peak that they don't objectively realize that Fischer was past his peak even in 72.

Now if Fischer could play in 75 like he did in 70 and 71, of course he beats Karpov.

Ok reality check! Already showing signs of decline in the Spassky match, what makes people think that in 1975 Fischer could have returned to the form he displayed when he smashed Taimanov and Larsen?

This is just idiocy.

However, it is a valid point that Fischer did have a prior hiatus (twice) only to come back stronger. He was also younger, though, and I doubt that he maintained an ability to play mistake free chess without practice and all the distractions he dealt with between 72 and 75.

Facts are facts. Fischer was human. Many chess players in history did have that brief stretch of near flawless/unhuman chess, but for some reason, only Fischer gets judged on it.

No body wants to compare a 24 year old Karpov to a 24 year old Fischer. They don't want to compare a 22 year old Fischer to a 22 year old Kasparov. Why is that? Because Fischer wasn't as good. Only the peak performance of Fischer was better.

The cold hard truth is if you took a 14 year old Judit Polgar and put her up against a 14 year old Bobby Fischer, she would have C-R-U-S-H-E-D him - BRUTALLY.

But oh no ... we only compare the 1970/1971 version of Fischer to anybody.

LEARNFROMISTAKES
  • He was scared,  But i still thinking that Fischer had chances to win.
Reb

In 75 Fischer was better than Karpov . Keep in mind Karpov never beat Fischer's peak rating even though he played for decades after Fischer was out of the picture . Karpov also only has an even record against T Petrosian and Fischer crushed him . There is absolutely no reason to believe Karpov was ever better than Fischer and certainly not in the 70s 

sirrichardburton

  Myself i have seen so any posts on this subject that i am pretty tired of it. The simple fact is that he could not come to an agreement with the ruling chess organization and he refused to defend his title. As a player fischer is much to be admired but as a champion he stands at the bottom of the list.

Justs99171
Reb wrote:

In 75 Fischer was better than Karpov . Keep in mind Karpov never beat Fischer's peak rating even though he played for decades after Fischer was out of the picture . Karpov also only has an even record against T Petrosian and Fischer crushed him . There is absolutely no reason to believe Karpov was ever better than Fischer and certainly not in the 70s 

Very superficial. Fischer played an off form and unambitious Spassky who didn't even prepare for the match.

In 74, an ill Karpov defeated Spassky even worse when Spassky was at his absolute best.

Fischer beat Spassky 7 games to 2 with 11 draws in 1972.

Karpov beat Spassky 4 games to 1 with 6 draws in 1974.

No body knows how strong Fischer was in 1975.

The statement I made, which is thoroughly based in objective analysis, was that Karpov in 74 was stronger than Fischer in 72; which is correct.

It's reasonable to believe that Fischer was stronger in 72 than he would have been 75.

It's also reasonable to believe that Karpov would have been better in 75 than in 74.

The two players peak ratings were close. Fischer at 2785 and Karpov at 2780. But ratings never indicate current strength; just past results.

Reb

The problem I have with games played between Spassky and Karpov is that there is no way of knowing that Spassky wasnt pressured ( ordered ? ) to lose to Karpov ?  Karpov was the new darling of the soviets and they did NOT want Fischer to face Spassky again .  There is no logical reason to believe Fischer would be worse in 75 than in 72 . He had taken long absences from chess twice before in his career and came back stronger both times . This indicates that even when he wasnt playing he never stopped working on chess . When did Karpov break 2700 ?  

duckcrusade
Russiaaaa and the Soviet Union, that's why. Fischer hated Russians
Justs99171
Reb wrote:

The problem I have with games played between Spassky and Karpov is that there is no way of knowing that Spassky wasnt pressured ( ordered ? ) to lose to Karpov ?  Karpov was the new darling of the soviets and they did NOT want Fischer to face Spassky again .  There is no logical reason to believe Fischer would be worse in 75 than in 72 . He had taken long absences from chess twice before in his career and came back stronger both times . This indicates that even when he wasnt playing he never stopped working on chess . When did Karpov break 2700 ?  

If FIDE had implemented elo ratings earlier in Fischer's career, this would have undoubtedly lowered his rating substantially.

Basically Fischer got his peak rating performance for a permanent rating. I'm a little puzzled as to how this is overlooked.

This is pretty simple. If someone has an established rating of 1800, then improves and starts performing like they are 2200, their rating is NEVER going to reach 2200. They would have to exceed a 2200 rating performance many times to reach 2200.

Imagine if Karpov wasn't rated until 1994 ...

And I seriously doubt that Spassky was ordered to lose to Karpov. I think you're getting a little too far off the deep end with the whole conspiracy KGB interference with chess theory.

jambyvedar
Justs99171 wrote:
Reb wrote:

The problem I have with games played between Spassky and Karpov is that there is no way of knowing that Spassky wasnt pressured ( ordered ? ) to lose to Karpov ?  Karpov was the new darling of the soviets and they did NOT want Fischer to face Spassky again .  There is no logical reason to believe Fischer would be worse in 75 than in 72 . He had taken long absences from chess twice before in his career and came back stronger both times . This indicates that even when he wasnt playing he never stopped working on chess . When did Karpov break 2700 ?  

If FIDE had implemented elo ratings earlier in Fischer's career, this would have undoubtedly lowered his rating substantially.

Basically Fischer got his peak rating performance for a permanent rating. I'm a little puzzled as to how this is overlooked.

This is pretty simple. If someone has an established rating of 1800, then improves and starts performing like they are 2200, their rating is NEVER going to reach 2200. They would have to exceed a 2200 rating performance many times to reach 2200.

Imagine if Karpov wasn't rated until 1994 ...

And I seriously doubt that Spassky was ordered to lose to Karpov. I think you're getting a little too far off the deep end with the whole conspiracy KGB interference with chess theory.

 

Good points.

Zobral

What I can recall from 1974 is that everybody (except Russians maybe) was expecting Fisher to beat Karpov. This is why the demands ffrom Bobby were mostly seen as money demands. At that point in time , I repeat, most people tought Bobby woul win easily.

 

Fact is that they did not play and so we will never know for sure what would have happened.

 

I personally think that all reasoning based on chess ratings are flawed as they compare ratings valid in different moments, different opponents, etc..

 

Fisher was a phantastic player and a well deserved chess champion. The same for Karpov.

 

Saludos.

camter
0110001101101000 wrote:

Fischer wasn't a fugitive until after the 90s Spassky match. The match where he became world champ was played in the 70s.

---

I imagine Fischer didn't play Karpov for the same reason he very nearly didn't play Spassky... partly fear of losing, and partly fear of winning. If he loses it's proof he's not as good... but even worse, If he wins and he's the best, in a way his life loses it's meaning (working towards that goal is what kept him going).

I was around and took a lot of interest in the case at the time.

But, I see the poster's membership is closed, so I will not bother rebutting his version of events.

greenibex

fischer fought in vietnam just like rambo

Flank_Attacks

I thought, it was 'common knowledge'! .. 'Fwiw' ..'Bobby' had a Bad case of 'halatosis' in his 'middle'-to-latter years.. which amazingly dwarfed, his other personality defects ! o:

Barry_Helafonte2

Karpov did not want to play

and then FIDE gave him the title

i checked this and found out on wikipedia

Zobral

That´s not what happened.

Bobby made a lot o demands: chesswise and moneywise.

There was no agreement. Bobby did not accept to play as per what was being offered.

Karpov champion !

Regards.