and even real-life games such as poker or blackjack, where cards are counted or manipulated, or bets are manipulated.
Hey, I just wanted to point out that counting cards at blackjack is not cheating because it is the skillful use of information that is available to all players. Casinos only ban counters because they don't like players to have an advantage! Anyway, sorry to go off topic, I just wanted to clarify a misconception.
and even real-life games such as poker or blackjack, where cards are counted or manipulated, or bets are manipulated.
Hey, I just wanted to point out that counting cards at blackjack is not cheating because it is the skillful use of information that is available to all players. Casinos only ban counters because they don't like players to have an advantage! Anyway, sorry to go off topic, I just wanted to clarify a misconception.
A number of players here at chess.com - not necessarily lower-rated ones - consider their opponents to be cheats when they discover that those opponents are using Game Explorer, the Analysis Board or similar, legitimate facilities during the game (turn-based chess). They are hard to convince it is not cheating because it is the skillful use of information that is available to all players.
When you come from the point of view of over-the-board chess, it is absolutely cheating. Especially Game Explorer. But really, cheating or not cheating is not an opinion question, it is a question of the rules. They are entitled to their opinion, but it is not relevant to the question of cheating.
Niven42, why would you find card counting at blackjack or other games to be cheating? as a chess player, i would have expected that you would have respect for anyone who uses their brains to solve what is essentially a giant problem. is using statistical knowledge in poker cheating too? what issues do you have with bet manipulation? i do not advocate cheating but in my mind integrity and honor in play also requires one to play as well as one can.
When people say "patzer" they generally mean a weak player. According to this interesting article discussing it's etymology, it specifically means one who blunders and may also imply the blunderer believes they're better than they really are.
Okay, so how weak does one have to be to be considered a patzer? Is this a relative thing? Is someone a patzer just because they aren't as good as you? Or is there an approximate rating level, below which, one is a patzer?
I haven't established my rating yet, but I think I'll come in around 1300-1400. And if that skill level causes other players to call me a patzer, I'll end up curled in a ball, whimpering in the corner.
I don't know, I don't use the word patzer.
I do use the word fish though, and if they are the same thing, then I'd say a fish is under USCF 1300.
... please read the title as -
why do whiner-patzers delude themselves that non-patzers are cheats?
I apologise for the mistaken title - soon as i sent this post i realised the title wasn't what i meant - i meant whiner-patzers not patzers! but there is no way to edit the title. Serious mistake, but unintentional.A useful facility - in the absence of being able to edit the title (other than by completely deleting the discussion and starting over) - would be the ability to add a subtitle. In the case of this discussion:
TITLE: why do patzers delude themselves that non-patzers are cheats?
SUBTITLE: whiner-patzers
I'm thinking that a subtitle is something you might add later on in the discussion to emphasise the essence. (And it would be neat to be able to edit it, of course!)
Ideally, the sub-title would act as a searchable keyword - but not be part of the URL to the topic (http://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/why-do-patzers-delude-themselves-that-non-patzers-are-cheats)
playing chess NOT-BLINDFOLD is CHEATING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah, this one gets mentioned a lot vis-a-vis cheating. What is the thought process on moving the king to the corner? I don't view it as suspected cheating (by using a chess program), but I find the strategy extremely unsound. Does anyone have some insight on it? When is it a good idea to move into the corner?