Why fake a low rating to win ??

People do that, all the time, also OTB. I know a number of players who intentionally lose ELO rating to get in the lower bracket and dominate the next tournament..

It's sad, but it's just the way it is: if they are happy with this, so be it...

 These things go in phases. Sometimes you're keen to practise your killer chess skills, perhaps against much lower ranked players, with an expectation of victory. Other times it seems appropriate to take on the big bananas and see how they do things; obviously you'll lose most of these games. If you go to extremes with either approach your rating will not be 'true', but is that a problem?

First and foremost IT'S A GAME! We play it for enjoyment. If you enjoy playing weaker players on occasion so what? Maybe the weaker player will gain from the experience as well. So long as no one suffers any REAL loss what's the difference? So far as I know the prize fund for tournaments on chess.com is ... just let me check that figure again - oh yes, it's $0.00! and in pounds sterling that works out to (checks exchange rate, fires up calculator) ah yes, that's £0.00 as well! What a coincidence!

Second ratings are a measure of consistency, i.e. they may vary on a game by game basis (one always hopes for improvement of course) but any player, in a particular game, can play far below or above their rating.

My rating varies radically as I have health problems which mean that sometimes I play around 1200 level in on-line blitz and sometimes around 1600-1700 (it's better to sit up all night playing chess than lie in bed suffering). And so what? If you play me once and beat me easily and then play me again and lose badly, well, that's chess!

My point is that people who play chess for fun attach far too much importance to ratings. The only time ratings are really important is if you're a professional player. The really important thing is to play game in front of you as well as you possibly can and try and enjoy the experience, even if you lose!

Of course tournament directors don't like sandbaggers because it can give their tournament a bad name. But playing for entertainment with no prize fund? Who cares?

sramone -

Aww geez. I knew it might've been trouble to throw myself into the line of fire as an example of what the poster was complaining about. I think being called unethical and a loser is quite the stretch. I've made friends with the tournament director now, genuinely enjoyed the games, consistently chatted with my opponents, just like normal, like I've always done.

I'm sorry you disapprove. I was invited to the tournament expressly, I didn't go out of my way to find it, and quite frankly I find it odd that I'm in a position of "defending" myself against such insults.

My rating has always been wildly around the map. It's currently inflated, who cares. No where on the site rules does it say "Please try and come up with a personal estimation of what you think your real rating is (as different from the one you have on this site) and try and indicate it to your opponents" or something. Are people required to do that when they join and are given the provisional rating of 1200? Of course not.

And in fact, my blitz rating IS ~1000. I'm only rated 1400ish now in CC because I'm able to take a lot more time in my analysis, AND because I'm over inflated. You'll see my average player rating is about 1100.

Of course there will be discrepancies. If you want to start a witch hunt and run around analysing people's play histories for any kind of "abuse" (oooooh they might be better than their current rating reflects! better go get erik!) to protect the integrity of things.

Geez. I thought I'd join a tournament to help recover my rating. I'm sorry to you it's like I've broken some moral code.

I have to get ready for work now.

Lets say you happen to be playing a very high-rated player and you happen to win on time?  Then you've got a very high rating most likely well above your actual playing level.  Would that be a fair "floor"?  I think that the idea of a floor is a good idea, but I can see where some people might get unlucky.  And doesn't that idea only work for people who went up in rating after joining chess.com?  Everyone who went down would technically have the same floor. 

Just analyzing here.  Maybe there could be a way to make and idea like that work. :)

While it's a shame that people care that much about the ratings to try to manipulate them that way, I do my best to make it not matter by not worrying about it. I just like to play and learn, and I always learn more from a loss anyway.

Hehe okay. So on the way to work I was reading Ramakrishna and reflected on this situation from that place of calm.

First of all, let me just say I didn't sneakily decide (complete with villainous laughter) to "trick" someone or something. Honestly. This isn't "ratings manipulation". I can fully understand the tension and genuine potential for cheating if this was a real life USCF tournament for money, absolutely. I came to this site well before we had tournaments, so perhaps I lack a perspective on them that appropriately respects their integrity. I thought it would be fun to enter that tournament. And I also thought that was what we were supposed to be doing on this website. Of all the areas in my life, this is one that is for pure fun. I digress...

I think this situation has just tapped into some fear and anxiety that people have about their opponents (what if they're even better than they appear??). It's totally natural. By setting myself up as an example I should've known that people would want to dispense of some stress in this respect (hence the loser comment).

I think it is also easy with the obsessive and competitive nature chess can bring out in us to slip into a myopic perspective when it comes to ratings. Having been here for over a year now, I let a lot of that go a while back, so I'm happy with whatever.

So availing myself to those who accuse me of wrongdoing, how do you suggest I make amends? Would you like me to withdraw from the tournament? What rating would you like me to have - if there's a consensus I'll resign any number of games until you feel satisfied.

I do think that some of my opponents in the tournament would be sad to see me go. I think they've been enjoying the games. But justice must be done, yes? The proper balance established in the universe.

So there you go. Allow me to recompense for my evil. Say the word and I will withdraw from the tournament and resign however many games you feel is fitting. I await your judgement.

/And remember to have fun today, everyone!
//attachment is suffering

Rael, 

There is a word for people who go through life only thinking of themselves and rationalizing why they can ignore other people's wishes (i.e. breaking the Golden Rule of "do unto others...").  That word is a--hole.  

Personally, I don't get too worked up about rankings. I don't go searching through people's profiles or reporting suspected abuse.  If I enter a <1400 tourney and it starts a week later and in that time some of the players have improved to 1450, 1500, or even 1600, would I start complaining about it?  No.  I wouldn't waste 5 seconds thinking about it.  People's ratings fluctuate.  So be it.

But if I found out that someone who was ranked 2000 had deliberately tanked a number of games in 48 hours so that they could drop 600 points, enter the tourney, and "absolutely thrash" a number of their opponents do you know what I would think?  I would think "Boy, that person is a real a--hole."  I still probably wouldn't bother reporting it, but that is what I would think.

It is YOUR CHOICE whether you want to be that person or not.

BTW, it is no excuse just because your were invited to the tourney.  That is a lame rationalization.  You were invited because people assume that a player's rating has some relationship to their skill level.  

The other day, I was invited to a tourney for people with low avg. move times.  However, it has been busy at work and I knew that I probably couldn't play as fast as normal that week.

Did I say, "Screw them.  They invited me.  It will be good for them to play a little slower for once."?  No. I thought, "These people want to play quickly. I can't do that right now.  So I won't spoil it."

If you want to play against easier players, take the effort to use the advanced "start a game" features to seek opponents who are looking to play against higher rated players.

It is called common courtesy.  It is called politeness.  It is called being respectful of others.

I can't see why you would resign to be honest, it sounds fair enough to me.

Remember two things always;-

No matter what you do, someone will always be unhappy.

Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

People care far too much about protecting their ratings IMHO, Play, Learn, Share!

sramone -

Haha. When I made that "absolutely thrash" comment I knew it would draw some ire... I went out of my way to allow myself to be demonized thereby, offering myself as the very paragon of this devilry.

In any case, I don't feel I'm deserving of the insult you've paid me. I play all sorts of people. Heck, I let Ray_Brooks give me a good old thrashing every now and again - haha, he calls me a chicken in live chess and let's me have it. Most of my games are with someone called littlehotpot, he's rated something like 824 and yet keeps challenging me - 22 games so far. And yes, when I went about re-raising my rating I made like, 40 open seeks for >1199 players.

Oh, and I never deliberately tanked my rating so that I could enter a little online tournament for little to no gain. The reasons for my mass resignations are personal.

Anyways, I can't possibly give a full defense as if I'm on trial here.

I'd hoped something positive could've come from putting myself into this thread like I have; there are far too many variables to make judgement calls and throw around insults if you ask me, in most of these situations.

I see thread after thread complaining about different situations (Abusing vacation time! The higher rated players never let us take a shot at them! Such and such is soooo unfair!), and I may've made an error in pulling a cheater_1 as it were and seeing what would happen if I stepped in and said "Hey, that's me. I'm the guy you're all complaining about." because, frankly, I can handle being the brunt of an a-hole comment in an internet forum.

You didn't answer my question though - if I've done something wrong, as you claim, how can I make it right? Perhaps if I take whatever action you and the other complainers in this thread deem appropriate, we can all feel cathartically cleansed and the thread can end having culminated in the punishment of someone guilty of the misdeed, you see?

I'm really glad you decided to "weigh in" on this guy ! I really had to bite my tongue when replying to him as I'm not here to make enemies.........but, you really summed it up in the first sentence "what a loser this guy is" !!

I agree with you, tournaments are not the place to get your sub-par ratings back up where they should be. If your rating has tanked for any reason, build it back up playing regular games, not in a tournament !

cheers to you !

Well at least you got to play a better player

It does help, doesn't it, to comiserate with one another about how much of a loser I am, yes? Reassuring one another that you're more honorable.

Interesting that you imagine that such vitriol is warranted. All the evils in the world and this is an issue that warrants your stress and mental fixation.

But yes, it can be good to have a focal point for your frustration, I'm glad I've given you one.

So far the punishment you gentlemen have seen fit to dispense has come in the form of insults - we've got a-hole and loser (x2) so far.

Rael,

I am not here to put you on trial.  Frankly, I have no interest in delving into your personal situation.

I think I adequately described what I think is out-of-bounds behavior.  And what I think of people who engage in it.

Perhaps you fall into that category and perhaps you do not.  You can decide for yourself.  

what the hell - i am bipolar depressive --- at online chess [I dont play it seriously here] where I play it seriously, I beat a near-master and next game I lose to a novice.

At correspondence, of course I am consistent - because I only decide on moves when I am feeling stable.

What I am saying is, there could be all sorts of reasons.

I'm not "stressed" or "menatally fixated" whatsoever.........in fact I'm quite enjoying the lively discussion surrounding this issue. Isn't that what forums are all about ?

I still don't understand how you think it is OK to use a tournament as a vehicle to get your rating back up to where it should be ??? Do that on regular online games, not a tournament that has specific rating brackets.

As far as the name calling.............hey, if the shoe fits ?

""He reviled me; he injured me; he defeated me; he deprived me." In those who harbour such grudges, hatred never ceases."
                              - The Buddha, from the Dhammapada

Chess can be just full of Whiney B!tches (gender-neutral) that call it the "Gentleman's Game". 

normajeanyates:

This isn't about whether people's ratings may fluctuate.  Nobody disputes that.

This isn't about whether there are logical explanations for losing a string of games in a row.  That can be explained, too.

We are discussing intentional behavior.  Whether it is appropriate to waste people's times and frustrate the integrity of tournaments by starting games, playing 5-10 moves, resigning, tanking your rating, and then entering a tourney where you have every reason to believe that you are significantly better than the opposing players.  On purpose.