Why is Topalov look down upon so much?

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Steinwitz

Nonsense. I've put up a post about Toiletgate in the General Discussion, with some facts that might be helpful, given the mess of badly remembered statements in this thread.

MarvsC

Topalov will be toppled off by Anand.

Atos
ninevah wrote:
Ziryab wrote:
ninevah wrote:

A disturbing thing about the Elista incident is that FIDE actually didn't checked the accusations until the match was over. From what I have read they did not allowed proper inspection and told the complaining side to just shut up. Even if there was no cheating, one good thing out of this was that the next matches became more transparent.


Your recollections differ substantially from actual events. Have a look at http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=3372 (a story produced during the event).


Well, this story is really unconclusive:

"Despite there being an unusual number of visits, this is insufficient on its own to come to a conclusion." and "There were technical problems that did not allow a full recording of the rest rooms where a partial recording was made available."

And yet FIDE decided "To close both the toilets in the players' rest rooms and to open another toilet that will be available only to the two players."

So, the comittee didn't found the accusations unreasonable.


 Were the allegations of being physically threatened reasonable as well ? If so, how come Kramnik isn't in jail yet ?

ninevah
Atos wrote:

 Were the allegations of being physically threatened reasonable as well ? If so, how come Kramnik isn't in jail yet ?


I have no clue. I don't claim I know everything and few (if any) members of Chess.com can trully claim to know everything. So I don't rush my judgement. Laughing

jesterville

1. Topalov has decided to play "Sofia" rules, even though this is a FIDE World Chess Championship...and therefore should be playing under FIDE WCC rules...as Anand clearly pointed out...he demands this, he demands that...and he is not even the World Champion.

2. Topalov has indicated that he will not speak to Anand directly, nor wants any conversation during matches...isn't this like anti-social behaviour? I've never seen a chess match at this level where GMs "chat"...so what the heck is Topalov talking about.

3. Kramnik was accused of cheating by Topalov with no proof. Even if you suspect something, I am sure there is proper procedure in place to address this. When you come out in public and accuse someone of cheating...make sure you can back-up what you are saying...else you look like a j..k a.s 

Kramnik of course was vindicated after some investigaton by FIDE. And this, was the genesis of the bad blood between them.

When it comes to chess play, Topalov is great, and I love following his match play...but his fan base, and respect meter is leaking badly.

Atos

Well, I could even see how Topalov might have suspected cheating of some sort, but that he felt that his life was in danger... come on.

Kupov3
Fiveofswords wrote:
(there is a fide rule that if a player refuses to shake hands he is forfieted from the game)

 


No there isn't.

philidorposition
Kupov3 wrote:
Fiveofswords wrote:
(there is a fide rule that if a player refuses to shake hands he is forfieted from the game)

 


No there isn't.


Yes, there is. There's no problem if both players don't offer a hand shake, but if one player leaves his/her opponent's hand "en prise", he/she is forfeited.

BTW, Danailov tried that dirty trick too, with one of his soldiers (other than Topalov). 

ninevah
jesterville wrote:

1. Topalov has decided to play "Sofia" rules, even though this is a FIDE World Chess Championship...and therefore should be playing under FIDE WCC rules...as Anand clearly pointed out...he demands this, he demands that...and he is not even the World Champion.

It's Topalov's choice not to offer or accept draws. What's the big problem? Really, what's the problem?

2. Topalov has indicated that he will not speak to Anand directly, nor wants any conversation during matches...isn't this like anti-social behaviour? I've never seen a chess match at this level where GMs "chat"...so what the heck is Topalov talking about.

Again, they will not speak only during the game. This does not include any other time and place.

3. Kramnik was accused of cheating by Topalov with no proof. Even if you suspect something, I am sure there is proper procedure in place to address this. When you come out in public and accuse someone of cheating...make sure you can back-up what you are saying...else you look like a j..k a.s 

Well, Topalov filled a complaint. The comittee's response was basically inconclusive. Note, they did not say there was no cheating.

Kramnik of course was vindicated after some investigaton by FIDE. And this, was the genesis of the bad blood between them.

Nope. The investigation said "inconclusive".

When it comes to chess play, Topalov is great, and I love following his match play...but his fan base, and respect meter is leaking badly.

Only people concerned with FIDE politics rather than chess care about this crap.


killer_Rex

o.O

Ziryab
ninevah wrote:
Ziryab wrote:
ninevah wrote:

A disturbing thing about the Elista incident is that FIDE actually didn't checked the accusations until the match was over. From what I have read they did not allowed proper inspection and told the complaining side to just shut up. Even if there was no cheating, one good thing out of this was that the next matches became more transparent.


Your recollections differ substantially from actual events. Have a look at http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=3372 (a story produced during the event).


Well, this story is really unconclusive:

"Despite there being an unusual number of visits, this is insufficient on its own to come to a conclusion." and "There were technical problems that did not allow a full recording of the rest rooms where a partial recording was made available."

And yet FIDE decided "To close both the toilets in the players' rest rooms and to open another toilet that will be available only to the two players."

So, the comittee didn't found the accusations unreasonable.


The point is clear if you read the letter, which was issued the day after the complaint. The FIDE appeals committee investigated, found the complaint full of exaggerations, found no credible evidence to sustain the complaint, and nevertheless took action to alter playing conditions in a manner that reduced opportunities for the far-fetched scenario alleged in the complaint.

When you state, "A disturbing thing about the Elista incident is that FIDE actually didn't checked the accusations until the match was over," two possibilities exist:

1) you did not follow closely the events during or after their occurrence, or

2) you are lying.

I'm inclined to believe the former. I suspect that you are relying on unsupported allegations in the Bulgarian press, and either did not know or forgot about the FIDE investigation.

Steinwitz

Have a look at the following link, it gives some specifics about the Elista event:

http://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/kramnik---elista---and-the-quottoiletquot

Kramnik was pacing back and forth between his rest room and the adjoining toilet.

As to the handshake rule. Yes, there is a rule that players should shake hands at the start of a game, but it doesn't lead to immediate forfeit, which was demonstrated at Corus when Cheparinov refused to shake Short's hand. Cheparinov was first declared in forfeit, and Short was later forced to play Cheparinov as the forfeit ruling should have been made after a stern warning had been delivered by the arbiter, and not immediately as was the case.

Cheparinov refused to shake Short's hand because of accusations Short had made against Topalov/Danailov in connection with the Elista match.

As to Topalov's adherence to the Sofia Rules there's nothing wrong in that - and it's just a ploy to have cover for wearing down Anand as the match progresses, by playing on in positions that are obviously drawn.

As players aren't allowed to speak to each other during play, the fact that Topalov communicates through the arbiter shouldn't get us too upset.

Steinwitz

Personally, I find the "play on in draws" very instructive, and definitely better than this recent game between Guseinov and Mamedyarov.

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Bxc6 dxc6 5. O-O Qf6 6. d4 exd4 7. Bg5 Qd6 8. Nxd4 Bd7 9. Nc3 Qg6 10. Qd2 Bb4 11. Rad1 Nf6 12. Bxf6 Bxc3 13. Qxc3 Qxf6 1/2-1/2
PrawnEatsPrawn

"As to Topalov's adherence to the Sofia Rules there's nothing wrong in that - and it's just a ploy to have cover for wearing down Anand as the match progresses, by playing on in positions that are obviously drawn."

 

So then, if a player desires to adjust his pieces, he calls over the arbiter and says "J'adoube" to him and then centres the pieces? Isn't that just pure nonsense? How can that be less annoying for Topalov than the traditional whispered warning? Anand must be a real gent not to wring every ounce of goodness/annoyance out of the situation.

smileative

this whole thread is bloody hilarious !! Laughing rules! rules! rules! Smile - try playin' rugby - u never know which rules is which whenever u turns up !! - but u still plays the game an' gets on with it - it called 'gettin' the best out of life' - try it Smile - it most rewardin' Smile

panandh

About topa's personality and toiletgate, it is similar to USA accusing japan throwing bombs in USA and destoried the cities of USA in 1945

Tricklev

The funny thing is that the only player that does offer draw in this match, so far, is Topalov, sure he does it through the arbitrator, but it seems Anand is really sticking it to Topalov for demanding the Sofia rules.

MarvsC
panandh wrote:

About topa's personality and toiletgate, it is similar to USA accusing japan throwing bombs in USA and destoried the cities of USA in 1945


dude, you might be reprimanded by a moderator for posting statement like this.  You should avoid such historical themes as some members of chess.com are descendants of the victims of WW2. Cool

MarvsC

when we should at least be considerate of others' feelings, right?  Cool

Opus360
Reb wrote:

Has anyone seen a number used concerning the frequent toilet breaks ?  I mean, did he go 2 or 3 times,  20 times , more ?  Was this happening in only one game, or several, or all ? 


Check this out...  http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=3370