Why only 3 black grandmasters, none of which are American?

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BradleyFarms

Neat.

Penfold77
stuzzicadenti wrote:

if Maurice Ashley is not American then Hikaru Nakamura is also not American. both were born in other countries but moved with their family to America at a very young age and grew up there.

 

Nakamura is American by birth due to his mother being American. US nationality is automatic at birth via Jus sanguinis and/or Jus soli.

(And of course an immigrant to the United States can apply for citizenship after having resided in the United States for a certain number of years.)

GrizzlyBear313

TuckerTommy you are correct in the fact that Maurice Ashley was born in Jamaica, however I think you are splitting hairs for not giving the U.S. credit for his chess credentials.  Ashley moved to the New York at the age of 12 and didn't become a grandmaster until the age of 33 or 34.  I'm sorry, but Jamaica doesn't get credit for that.  

BonTheCat

To a great extent, I think it's socio-economic factors. If we look at Africa, it's the poorest continent (especially the sub-Saharan part) by quite some margin, and also in countries with substantial Black population, such as the UK, France, Brazil, and the US, Black people tend to be a disadvantage. In my experience, Black people's aptitude for the game doesn't seem to be worse than that of other ethnicities.

BonTheCat
PremiumSnapPossible wrote:
BonTheCat wrote:

To a great extent, I think it's socio-economic factors. If we look at Africa, it's the poorest continent (especially the sub-Saharan part) by quite some margin, and also in countries with substantial Black population, such as the UK, France, Brazil, and the US, Black people tend to be a disadvantage. In my experience, Black people's aptitude for the game doesn't seem to be worse than that of other ethnicities.

There are definitely black people with talent but at the same time there are countries in Africa that wouldn't have invented the wheel by 2019 if not for Great Britain's imperialism and that's saying something.

That's a highly debatable point - all European colonizers exhibited great cruelty. At the Berlin Conference of 1884-85 the European leaders took a ruler and drew the continent of Africa into nice little squares for the colonizers, which resulted in tribes/peoples being unnaturally lumped together or split, plus of course that the colonizers held all the power and and all the land until about 50 odd years ago (and clearly multinationals still sitting on most of the resources). I'm not saying that native people are saints by virtue of being native people, but being enslaved and subjugated for generations is bound to have a long-term deleterious effect, even after you've gained your freedom. You start off from much a lower rung than everyone else.

BonTheCat

Good Lord, yes, and in the Amazon rainforest and the jungles of Borneo you're still able to find tribes who hunt with bow and arrow (with points made from flint), and in Northern Scandinavia you have the nomad Same people, who until very recently lived in tents, just as there are still to be found in parts of Russia. That's not proof of anything.

The Roman Empire and the European colonization of Africa, the Americas and Asia were not comparable. The Roman Empire extended a form of citizenship to all its subjugated provinces (What's that? Did anyone say Windrush?), legionnaires were recruited from them (towards the end at a ratio of 5:1) and these provinces conducted vigorous trade both between themselves and with the outside world. The European colonization was almost purely exploitation, enslavement, and trade was conducted almost exclusively so that the colonies furnished the colonizing home country and served as a forced market for goods produced there. Also, the 1,000 or so years following the fall of the Roman Empire wasn't exactly the high-point of European civilization ...

Never mind, let's leave this discussion, you clearly think that colonization was a force for nothing but good, and that the state of Africa today proves in some way that black people are less intelligent than others. I'm just trying to say that the way colonization was conducted has contributed greatly to the struggles of black people and Africa. After all, its resources are still mostly in the hands of the colonizers, old and new (China), and this is obviously a major factor holding the continent and its people back.

Rasta_Jay

There's no money in chess, simple as that. Most black players quit chess because it's not an economically viable option.  

Rasta_Jay
nyan_cat_2700 wrote:

Racist

who?

BonTheCat

My posts look very odd now that PremiumSnapPossible has deleted his/hers.

kevindonaghy

I think efforts to introduce chess in K-12 has helped but we need to find ways to generate sponsorships for promising young players.  Each of us can help in some ways. Imagine the excitement if we had strong corporate sponsorships and More opportunities to encourage and connect strong regional groupings and a new era of chess promotion.   It took several generations for us to build youth soccer to a level of being able to field a World Cup Team. We can work to help young people achieve their potential and the GMs will follow. I’m no one special, love the game, and may only be good for setting up tables and helping but in early 2020 after graduation I’ll help in philadelphia area. Anyone interested?  Kevinmd@temple.edu

BonTheCat
pfren wrote:
BonTheCat έγραψε:

My posts look very odd now that PremiumSnapPossible has deleted his/hers.

 

All you have to do now is predicting his next name.

cry.png

MustangMate

That mod's have permitted this thread to continue for this long boggles the mind.

Anybody with 2 cents of intelligence see's through the disguised racism.

For all the high flouting reasons to close other threads and to leave this one open is beyond any understanding of fairness and consistency. 

The topic clearly is no different than personal bias on religion or politics. WHY should the question of race be any different ??? 

 

Drunken_Shrimp

if you want to learn about racial disparities you should watch David Williams' documentary about inequality and how a white person with a criminal record has a higher chance of getting an entry level job than a black person without a criminal record

MustangMate

It's a basic point I made.

The topic's intent, the very nature of it's title, is meant to create disparity, disharmony or discord. Pick either or others, there is nothing good to come of any discussion of such differences for people's who play chess. 

Age, culture, race, religion, politics, gender, etc. .. it's all the same when any OP creates such titles. The intent is to create a negative atmosphere, one of argument and differences. Chess brings diverse peoples together, not the other way around.

I understand why "politics and religion" is taboo. But race and gender are allowed??? IMO, any topic that promotes disharmony within the chess community needs blocking. 

Monasa

Actually, your question itself is baseless as Maurice Ashley is of black descent yet an American Grandmaster.

Rasta_Jay
ghost_of_pushwood wrote:
MustangMate wrote:

IMO, any topic that promotes disharmony within the chess community needs blocking. 

lol

Are you disagreeing? Topics like this shouldn't be allowed at all..

Icks2007
Rasta_Jay wrote:
ghost_of_pushwood wrote:
MustangMate wrote:

IMO, any topic that promotes disharmony within the chess community needs blocking. 

lol

Are you disagreeing? Topics like this shouldn't be allowed at all..

is it rasict??

Boogalicious

This

MustangMate
ghost_of_pushwood wrote:
MustangMate wrote:

IMO, any topic that promotes disharmony within the chess community needs blocking. 

lol

What are you laughing at?

 

MustangMate
ghost_of_pushwood wrote:

oh please, stop!

Is this the best you can do?

"Man up." Take responsibility and own up to your actions, that of perpetuating disharmony in the chess community. It's just all fun and games for you kiddies. Hopefully, one day you'll realize the harm you are creating. I realize it's a stretch, such ingrained behavior is seldom changed. 

 

 

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