To each its own. You never tried it but it is not worth your time?
I found out one thing the word "exist" has a common usage [which I was using] and also a math usage [which I was not aware of]
Of course instead of raking me over the coals it would have been better if someone would have told me this [someone finally did and I am grateful for that]
Well, the kind of person who brags about their SAT's is often also a person who will obsess with doing well on it so that they can say they did well on it :)
I know what you are saying, I was just trying to defend against the ad hominem attacks by showing their lack of foundation in reality.
Yeah, I understand.
Sometimes when you are personally attacked [ad hominem] after so much you just have to try and defend yourself and show "their lack of foundation in reality" [I agree with condude2 on this point]
To each its own. You never tried it but it is not worth your time?
My expectation (in the mathematical probabilistic sense) of what I would find in there, compared to time to do other stuff, is largely negative.
One thing is for sure,- 'there is no forced win in chess'. If it were the case then nobody would bother to play the game. So therein lies the answer-neither side can force win so the game must be drawn with best play. I rest my case, and agree with ponz111, - and my betters, the Masters!!
My reply has not gone to the right place.
Its this site again,- mutter mutter.
It is a Draw! but untill it's Proved!? we will Play! and after it's Proved we will still Play! Because we love the game...and can Never master it like a 4000 + 5000 + Etc. ELO Computer!
A.R.B
You are an interesting fellow.
Baseball is a draw with best play from both sides, but we still play that. And in a hundred some years of trying, no pair of teams has come together yet to play a game that lasted infinite innings. Probably never will.
Same deal with chess, pretty much.
It is a Draw! but untill it's Proved!? we will Play! and after it's Proved we will still Play! Because we love the game...and can Never master it like a 4000 + 5000 + Etc. ELO Computer!
A.R.B
So how long do u think it will take before the ARB chess system solves chess?
Because with perfect play from white it is a win for white.
i will not try to get myself across as someone who really understands this great game, but from my perspective.....i played played chess at school and did ok......years later (now) i have returned the game and realise how awfull i am, i think at school i was the best of a bad bunch :P since school i did some boxing, and now i view chess like boxing, to me its about laying traps sometimes multiple traps and out witting your oppenent, but at the same time, they are doing the same to you, i hate walking into "punch" i should of seen coming....to me if your playing any game/sport for a draw why bother?...i mean that as know disrepect to any of you people that are obviously far better than me!! but if you aint going for the kill....take up knitting.......again no offence meant to any one, just my opinion.. i would rather lose than draw knowing i had played to win.........mow shoot me down :P have fun all
Because with perfect play from white it is a win for white.
Are you making a joke?
One thing is for sure,- 'there is no forced win in chess'. If it were the case then nobody would bother to play the game.
Why would people bother, if there was a forced draw ? Don't you see the flaw with that logic ?
Maybe it's so far out of calculation reach, even for computers, that it's still worth playing games ?
(oh, and untracking, nice necro btw)
Because with perfect play from white it is a win for white.
Are you making a joke?
no, not really. although my views have changed as to why. my second post here on chess.com in 09'
http://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/perfect-play--draw
I can't help but think when quantom computing comes full circle a system where by the values of individual squares will change. that white will be able to incrementally gain advantage and eventually a mid-game position will be dicovered that yields a won endgame with white. It will of course be kept secret by the uscf so as not to take away from the allure of chess discovery.
Because best play from both sides AINT GON HAPPEN!
That's like saying, with best fighting on both sides, a boxing match is a draw...
That's like saying, with best fighting on both sides, a boxing match is a draw...
Horrible example but I digress.... I think what is more important than anything is that even if chess is solved as a forced win for either side, no human person can memorize all of the forced lines. No one can compete with computers now when it comes to memory, imagine computers in 20, 50, 100 years. As to the question why do we play? Best play is virtually impossible, especially at our levels. No reason to quit playing because there is a 0.0000001% chance that your opponent will play all of the best moves.
Thanks, @Grob, for bring a breath of sanity to this often times sidetracked thread.
Wait, what was the original discussion about already ?
Oh yes, the meanings of "meaning", "exist", and "fact".
I never tried the open discussion group. I guess it is not worth any time and I guess more or less the kind of creepy things that might crawl in it.