Hacking clock at Chess.com

Alright, now I've clicked b*tch and it's a monday. (lips taut)

Lol.  You actually think your cable modem has never had packet loss or dropped connection in 2 decades?  As someone who worked on the backend systems at ISPs for 11 years...you need a serious reality check.  Plus, you're on cable, which is a shared network parceling out bandwidth to other users, so there is absolutely no way you can say that your connection has not faltered due to peak periods in your area, unless you are actually pinging/monitoring and logging your packet loss 24x7.

Javascript "loopholes" would only work if chess.com were to allow the client to "argue" with the server about how much time has elapsed.  A hacker might be able to screw up a live game in its entirety by spoofing something that confuses the server, but they would not be able to make your clock and only your clock lose time, unless the devs are chess.com are complete knuckleheads, and I don't think that is the case.

Read something like this:

https://www.highspeedinternet.com/resources/how-can-i-tell-if-my-internet-is-being-throttled-by-my-isp

Well -  i am not that  naive  to  think  packets  don't get lost in net or  connections get dropped on net.    Isn't  it  obvious  that  i was talking  about  "service interruptions"  as  the  connectivity  issues  i was referring to ?  As  far as  internet packet  losses  there is nothing anyone can do about it - because  at the core  internet  is  designed that way.   That  is trivial  knowledge to anyone who knows networks.    Obviously  there is some sort  of  problem  here,  and  that  is  what i am pointing to,  for the attention  of   chess.com  developers / management.    The exact nature of  the  loop hole  might be very  hard  to determine,  even for those who are  close to the code.   All  we do is  speculations here.  But  the  observations  are  not  to be discounted because many have observed  similar issues with regards to the timer.

I  did play  some more  unrated games, and  it was interesting to note that  the  timer does not move much  for me during unrated games.  Either the server  deals with  unrated games  in a separate  load balancing system  or  there is  something else in the code that gives  bias to unrated  / rated  games, thus  showing me  how much better the  clock  behavior  is  during  unrated games.  Perhaps there is a clue here  for  the engineering team - but mostly  i suspect the  load balancing scheme since  very few play unrated.

Unrated game monitoring...confirmation bias much?  You can't really say jack unless you also monitor rated games and compare directly, which, of course, you're not going to do ...because you would probably lose the rated games while you are also monitoring them. 

So instead you will say that a lot of people have this problem (yet, with 60k online playing live chess at any hour of day, you would think that if there were a serious problem...it might amount to more than a 2-3 page thread?), and you put forth anecdotal evidence of a feeling you have.

Apply Occam's Razor here.

Wow - what a difference.  I never played  1 min rated  because  of  timer  troubles i faced in  2/1 timer games.   Now i tried a 1 min game - and  i  could easily  win against  someone  who was 1900 (bullet, 1950 blitz)  with  20 seconds to spare when he ran out of timer.   I can not even dream of this  level of response from server  in a rated game. 

To further check out,  i played a  rated 1 min game next.  Opponent was  a 1481  bullet rated, 1600 blitz rated.   As  expected,  i ran out of timer  before him even though i tried to be as fast as previous game. I would  bet  that  the server treats  unrated games differently than rated games.   Different  execution paths result in the  server lag.

STUPID LITTLE THREAD

Did  anyone  here say that this is  a serious   "show stopper"  ?   Obviously,  there is an issue that  occurs to  a  good number of people.   Remember - not  everyone  has the time or inclination to report  a  bug  -  they are only  interested in playing - especially  bullet players.   So,  those who are talking about it in forums are  only  fraction  of  those who experience  bugs.   This actually  holds true for any  software bug out there.  Only  a fraction of  the  users will report bugs.  Have you ever reported  bug  to  Microsoft ?  Does that mean  that  MS  is perfect in software ?

Bad analogy.  This would be more like you have a problem while booting up, and then telling Microsoft that Windows has been hacked and they should look into it when you have no idea whatsoever.

Makes  me  laugh.   You are  comparing  OS  boot  issues  to   software  hacking ?   Haven't you  heard   how  even  the most secure  banking  systems have  been hacked  by  malicious  people ?  Do  you really  think  that  all  software  in   bullet  proof  ??   What  is your point here ?  Are you saying that  this server  is   rock solid  with no bugs ?    You have no clue who you are talking to.

  I  clearly  pointed  out  the two options why this timer  issue could be happening.  Go back and read this thread again. 

Don't be so dense.  Does it really seem like I am earnestly trying to compare the two in a practical sense?  I guess I can dispense with all nuances of subtlety...you are either (a) incapable of grasping the actual analogy put forth and how it directly relates to your argument, or (b) pretending to be obtuse in a losing battle so you can wave off everything you can't answer to.  Your anecdotal claims and evidence put forth thus far are entirely meaningless, and you haven't and can't support a word of it.  You haven't had 100% cable connection uptime for decades (nobody has, it's a ludicrous claim)...you haven't given any actual data that shows that you have suffered losses on time due to clock changes of any kind, much less hacking that only affects your own clock but not your opponent...you haven't shown that you have any kind of software/systems knowledge that would back up your "two options".  You've already struck out...might as well head for the dugout.

I was comparing your weak analogy to another (purposefully) weak analogy of the same characteristics, whereas you tried to BS your way through by saying you were only reporting a bug and that they should fix a bug...you know, because the bug is exactly as you described it?  Except that it isn't, and you don't know what you are talking about (again, as your ridiculous assertions about your cable connection uptime and then your "1 unrated game vs. 1 rated game must equal proof" position shows).

If you have a real argument to make, then make it and back it up...otherwise stop disparaging chess.com with your vague "it seems like this is happening" nonsense.

Quoting the nonsense for posterity, lest it be removed later.

...and again.

So, to re-iterate, your two options are: 

1. A loophole that geeks have figured out

2. Some bug

This is your scientific analysis, and you have reduced the result set down to these two absolute and concrete possibilities.  If only chess.com devs would get on the ball and take these two options to heart...but woe and dark tidings!  They are not genius level programmers and cannot counteract the geek-created loopholes...

But you know (from experience!), and you have had a perfect cable connection for 20 years that allows you to test for the geek loopholes and some bugs without worrying about lag.  They should listen to you...

The trifecta.

Note again for newbie emphasis (from experience!):  geeks do not have to do hard server stuff, they can hack and gain into loop holes (this is technical jargon that you might not be able to understand, but believe me...this is science).

but they would not be able to make your clock and only your clock lose time

That's not the issue elmo. It's that the opponent is freezing your play so u can't move....forcing ur clock to tick on until u get timed out. 

Ur stupid. Now go away before u get (2) dishes a antifreeze. 

....and something else I get alotta. When I'm down to under 2 seconds in 5-min blitz I can't easily get my piece to move (w/ mouse) and I get timed out. Not sure wutz going on here but I'm pretty confident someone does - and they're not talking.

Same difference from a hacking/exploiting perspective, both would require your opponent to send something to the server which is then (stupidly) passed on by the server to your client...because you and your opponent have no direct connection whatsoever.  Or, it could be a lag bubble on your end or anywhere along the line between you and chess.com's servers (or, it could even be a glitch on the servers that is affecting everyone affected *equally*).  The latter is numerous orders of magnitude more likely, yet some sliver of people will assume the former.  This is due to ignorance combined with confirmation bias.  You have lag bubbles all the time, but you only really remember and register them during the times they cause you the most harm...when they cause you to lose your game.

Does that mean it's not possible that there's a hack?  No...it's possible, but with the empirical evidence presented by the tiny fringe of what amount to conspiracy theorists on this thread (gut feelings and bad sampling/examples) , it is still not one iota more likely than before. 

But fine, let's say that there is a hack out there...obviously, it is incredibly widespread for you to randomly run into opponents often enough for you to notice, in which case...it would be known to thousands upon thousands of players...it would have to be, for you to statistically run into the hack so "frequently" (it's elementary, Watson).  At that level of penetration, it would be spreading like wildfire at this point by word of mouth/chat, and there is no way it would still be "secret"...there would be threads all up and down the forums with boatloads of players complaining (and complaining with actionable data instead of vague BS, I might add ...). 

If there were a working hack that were still secret and not spreading unchecked, that would require a small group of very tight-lipped users.  If there are 60k users in live chess at a given time of day, then let's say it would have to be something like 10,000 to 1 that you would run into a hacker for a closely-held "secret" hack.  Otherwise, if there were anything larger than a tiny handful of such hackers sprinkled online 24x7, you'd have to have hundreds or thousands of people that must know about the hack, and it would be impossible for the information to be contained.  But at 10,000 to 1, you would never notice the hack at all...how many games do you play in a week/month/year?

It's just a handful of crazies every time these threads pop up that convince themselves that the world is out to get them in particular.  They cluster together and feel vindicated because they read somebody else that has the same confirmation bias, so they make accusations, spout a bunch of anecdotes of times they felt screwed over, and then ultimately they end up having to go away...because it's not actually happening and ergo they won't be able to back up their claims.  These same people probably also wear copper bracelets to combat arthritis ("No, I swear, it really works!"), which is also a form of confirmation bias (the placebo effect).

The fact that you are subscribing to this is not surprising....you have demonstrated holding a number of pseudo-scientific beliefs that have gotten debunked over the years.

Looks  like  this  guy  is an  employee  of  chess.com  who  has the job of  trolling  forums and  posting long messages  (as  if  that  would  change  the  fact  that  something fishy  is happening at this site).  My intention  is  report  "a  potential  bug"  that is hard  to  trace.   Go  talk to your  developers and make the site better,  rather  than posting  essays  here  as if   that is  going  to change  the  EXPERIENCE   of   players  at this site.   Go  take a  look  at  lichess.org   if you want an example  of  how a  chess client   should  operate.    Posting  messages  that  imply  that all of  us who complain  are   mad  is not  going to  make  chess.com  any better.   People  do not trust  words   if  their  experience   is  not  going to  substantiate  the claims you make.

The fact that you are subscribing to this is not surprising....you have demonstrated holding a number of pseudo-scientific beliefs that have gotten debunked over the years.

The fact that summa us are experiencing this time issue thingy makes it really real. U just went on a 600+ wordy and basically said nothing of value....making u just as useless as the rest of us.

Computer whiz are ya ?....and ur trying to convince us ?....sorry, not impressed....as some puppeteer put their hand up ur rub-a-dub scrubby and pulled your brains out - there elmo !

I don't really care if you believe me, you've been a lost cause for years .  Other people reading this thread will, however, and that's the point, to dull the stirrings of the fearful cavepeople who would otherwise rile up everyone else around them.  Shake your voodoo dolls in some other direction.