Deliberately losing to lower your grade

Sort:
Avatar of EndgameEnthusiast2357

True

Avatar of seasideman
MGleason wrote:

It's not impossible to hide sandbagging, but it takes enough work for little enough benefit that it's unlikely to be a major problem.

You say that, but I see it surprisingly often in the daily tournaments. As soon as I get slaughtered by a player graded 600 or so, I look at their history and like as not I will see 15 wins on the trot preceded by 10 losses in one move. And you're right that it's not a major problem, but it does degrade the experience of being here somewhat,

Avatar of MGleason

The ten losses in one move is pretty obvious and should be reported.  What I mean by hiding it is someone actually taking the time to play a full game with inferior moves; how many people who want to sandbag are really going to take the time to do that?

Avatar of seasideman

I don't see why this place couldn't detect that sort of thing automatically. They have software that is supposed to be able to identify engine users, so you'd think locating people repeatedly losing after 1 or 2 moves wouldn't be impossible. And it is most desirable.

Avatar of MGleason

There are some automated systems, and they are being expanded, but most bans still require human involvement at some point.  That said, I have suggested that they add something to detect the more blatant sandbaggers.

Avatar of seasideman

Very good, thank you.

Avatar of An_asparagusic_acid
MGleason wrote:
EndgameStudier wrote:

I could see if you can tell someone is simply plugging moves into a computer, but how can you tell if someone's deliberately losing? People make stupid mistakes all the time

Most people who deliberately lose games don't bother playing more than a few moves.  If someone has a string of 50 consecutive 1-move losses, it's pretty easy to figure out what's going on.  If someone has ten consecutive games where they hung a piece in a won position, they're probably just playing drunk or tired.

They can deliberately get drunk to lower their rating.

Avatar of MGleason
1a3_1-0 wrote:
MGleason wrote:

This is called sandbagging, and is considered a form of cheating.  People have been banned for this.  Please report them to the support team by selecting Report Abuse under the Help menu, or using this link: https://support.chess.com/customer/portal/emails/new 

the link doesn't work

That's an old link.  See this: https://support.chess.com/article/209-how-do-i-report-someone

Avatar of m_connors
1a3_1-0 wrote:
MGleason wrote:

This is called sandbagging, and is considered a form of cheating.  People have been banned for this.  Please report them to the support team by selecting Report Abuse under the Help menu, or using this link: https://support.chess.com/customer/portal/emails/new 

the link doesn't work

Possibly because it was posted over 2 years ago?

Avatar of zugzwanger99

sorry i still don't understand why somebody would do this. to be able to enter a tourney that they win and get stupid points and badges? people spend their lives doing this?

Avatar of eric0022
zugzwanger99 wrote:

sorry i still don't understand why somebody would do this. to be able to enter a tourney that they win and get stupid points and badges? people spend their lives doing this?

 

Well, you never know... there would definitely be a minority out there.

Avatar of DarkKnightAttack
zugzwanger99 wrote:

sorry i still don't understand why somebody would do this. to be able to enter a tourney that they win and get stupid points and badges? people spend their lives doing this?

Yep

Avatar of MGleason

It happens OTB too, so that people can enter easier tournaments where they have a chance of winning prize money.

Avatar of nsgobbi

Sorry if this may sound a way bit off topic, but what upsets me by far is the incredible number of players who use algorythms to cheat with time, specially playing 1m tournaments. They profit from the fact in a fast game like this, you hardly ever look at the your clock, and the opponent's remaining time even less. From my perspective, playing at similar speeds, a reasonable delta time when the game finishes is around 5 sec, but is quite common to register even 30 seconds, nearly impossible !! And more than one time, I've seen with my eyes time being ADDED to the opponent's clock after his move. Disgusting !!

Avatar of Chess_Kibitzer_2020

In daily chess on this site you see players time out loads of games and their rating drop.

It's almost a form of sandbagging. In subsequent matches they get to play on a far lower board.

 

Avatar of MGleason

@nsgobbi, what you're seeing is not hacking, it's the effect of lag.  See https://support.chess.com/article/423-why-did-the-clock-times-suddenly-change-the-clocks-seem-broken

Also see https://www.chess.com/clubs/forum/view/on-hacking-the-interface-clocks-etc-possibilities-and-practicalities.

Avatar of eric0022

 

Or the usage of premoves in some instances, perhaps.

Avatar of DarkKnightAttack

I face this issue sometimes .

Avatar of DarknessDelta

If I was sandbagging I would admit it but I did not. Ratings don't exist here and I lost so many times to 1300 rated players who reach over 2000 to 2800 here. So I conclude that I lost so many times like that. I bet Most beginners that are 1300 are actually not. They are experts who click on the "new to chess"

Avatar of MGleason

Most new accounts here belong to people in and around the 800-1400 range.  There aren't enough experts to be a majority of new accounts.  But there are genuinely strong players who start with an initial rating that is lower than their real ability.  There are also weak players who start too high.  But the Glicko rating system that chess.com uses is sophisticated enough to get people to a roughly accurate rating system pretty quickly.