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Losing/Drawing on time

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Zigwurst

What if I had the following position as Black and White ran out of time on their move?

baddogno

Tricky, since white's only legal move would set him up for mate if he moved.  I would think OTB an arbiter would rule deliberate delay of game and award the win to black.  Online, I don't know.  Is the server programmed to recognize this situation or would it blindly announce a draw?

wanmokewan

Maybe I'm just not seeing it, but prove it that if White moves, Black wins.  h7, yes, but what about Kh7?

Zigwurst

Oh whoops I set that up wrong.

Jeffreak
[COMMENT DELETED]
oleppedersen

If there is sufficient material in order to mate, it will be a win for Black. In the first diagram, it is not so clear: Jeffreak suggests 1. Kh7 Kf7, 2. Kh8 Nf3 but then 3. h7 will force the Black king to move away from covering g8/g7 in order not to stalemate? So that seems like a draw (I am just a happy amateur)

In the second diagam, it is a win for Black, the sequence 1. h7 Nf7# is indisputable.

Zigwurst

So I'm asking in the second diagram what the result of the game would be awarded by the server if the side with a forced mate against them had their flag fall (on chess.com's live server).

Lagomorph
Zigwurst wrote:

So I'm asking in the second diagram what the result of the game would be awarded by the server if the side with a forced mate against them had their flag fall (on chess.com's live server).

In OTB play it would be a win for black under FIDE or USCF rules.

In chess.com ?  I think (only think) it would be a draw because the programming will just adjudicate that K+N is "insufficient material" without looking at the board position. Programming has its limits.

 

Have a look at these threads

http://www.chess.com/forum/view/livechess/how-come-this-is-a-draw

http://www.chess.com/blog/webmaster/live-chess-gets-some-love

Zigwurst
Zigwurst

?

doodledoo3

I think white loses. As long if black has just a king. It won't be a draw.

Zigwurst

You obviously haven't read the rule. Go read the rules :)

EDIT I see you are referencing the first post...that is obvious and has already been established.

chaotic_iak

White loses, according to FIDE rules. There is a sequence of legal moves that checkmates White in either diagram (for the second one it's obvious, for the first one just promote the pawn to a rook, set it on a2 with White king on a1, and checkmate with Black king on c1 and knight on b3).

Implementing on live server shouldn't be too hard. King + knight vs king + any non-queen allows a mating configuration, however unlikely, so if the king + non-queen side runs out the clock, he loses. Checking materials present is easy.

Zigwurst

So the server isn't smart enough to notice that and award the win for the side with the forced checkmate, rather than a draw by insufficient material? (as I asked...)

matthew_b_rook

white wins because he can still win



Zigwurst

Zigwurst

This position, Black to move, runs out of time.

Under the Laws of Chess, White should be awarded a win due to a series of legal moves leading to checkmate (...a2 Nc2#).

Are chess servers able enough to award the win to White if Black flags in the above position?

chaotic_iak
Zigwurst wrote:

So the server isn't smart enough to notice that and award the win for the side with the forced checkmate, rather than a draw by insufficient material? (as I asked...)

Oh, I see; I didn't notice the links in the middle of the thread. So chess.com probably uses USCF rules. If I recall correctly, USCF also doesn't give any attention on the position of the pieces, only counting materials, but I'm not sure as I can't find a copy of the rules.

Zigwurst

USCF goes for the material left for the side NOT out of time, although they have an exception for forced mates.

(I don't have the rulebook but I am 100% sure of this)

Zigwurst

And chess.com uses FIDE rules I believe