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Interesting Tactic Puzzle
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Nice, thanks.
holy smokes batman
why not 3.Ng3 ?
it forks the rook and queen
The line that is the hardest in my opinion is not Rxf2 but 2.Qxf2. After 2.Qxf2 black's queen is attacked and therefore Qxf2+ is forced. Then white can play 3.Rxf2 and after 3...Rxe5 white can seemingly play the move 4.Bxh6 as 4..gxh6 is met with 5.Rxf6 with an equal endgame. However, black has two choices here 4...Ng4 or 4...Ne4. After 4...Ng4 or 4...Ne4 it would seem that white has the move 5.Bf4 as white initiates a counter threat against black's rook since black was threatening both white's bishop and rook. If one then mentally moves the rook somewhere 5...Rf5 for instance then white can calmly play 6.R2f1 and it seems as black has nothing. If black pictures 5...Nxf2 then it seems as if white has 6.Bxe5 capturing the rook in return and now threatening the black knight on f2 with the king. Only if one then can picture mentally that the knight on f2 is attacking the d1 rook and picking it up for free can black say that he/she has seen the whole combination. This is because if the rook in the beginning had been on a1, for example, the combination would just be a fancy trade sequence after the knight safely retreated to g4 threatening the bishop on e5 and gaining time to protect the would be attacked a-pawn. How deceptive the game can be.
on 3...Ng4, reds, white can play the calm 4.Qd4 and black will end up a piece down.
good ,, tactic... very good indeed
thanks for comments. I've been getting better at seeing these things through in my head. Although I couldn't find it, upon analysis I could actually picture the moves playing out in my head. That was an interesting line suggested by Erad. Here's what I saw in my head.
I tried Rxe5 which was rejected but the only real difference to the solution is the move order. E.g Qxe5 Bxf2+ but what if white simply moves his king to h1 in either variation? He's then threatening Nxf7 and Bxh6 as well. Also even after the combination black's queen side pawns are isolated and weak and white has bishop vs knight which holds strong possibilities of a draw even though he's a pawn down.
The Knight's Fork is always a NICE TACTIC to use.
ADK
Jul 27, 2008
0
#13
chawil wrote:
what if white simply moves his king to h1 in either variation? He's then threatening Nxf7 and Bxh6 as well.
After 1. ... Bxf2+ 2. Kh1 then 2. ... Bd4 seems good.
Chawil, Kh1 really throws away any advantage white had. Its better for white to go through with the trades and hope that the bishop will out manuever the knight in the endgame to win a pawn back. Without the trades white is simply down a pawn, blacks bishop will land on d4 and black is making a skewer with his queen and knight towards the white king.
Kxf7 isn't a threat in any of these lines, it just throws away a piece and Bx h6 is no good as long as black queen is on b6 and gaurds his knight on f6.
depthshaman wrote:
Chawil, Kh1 really throws away any advantage white had. Its better for white to go through with the trades and hope that the bishop will out manuever the knight in the endgame to win a pawn back. Without the trades white is simply down a pawn, blacks bishop will land on d4 and black is making a skewer with his queen and knight towards the white king. Kxf7 isn't a threat in any of these lines, it just throws away a piece and Bx h6 is no good as long as black queen is on b6 and gaurds his knight on f6.
In fact after bishop takes f2 white has no advantage whatsoever. The best he can hope for is equality. This said there are several good reasons why white should avoid trading material, particularly when a pawn down. If you don't understand this principle I suggest you have a look at a basic chess manual. Also white is now threatening knight (N) not king (K) takes f7 unless black moves his bishop from f2.
But the main thrust of my comment is that the combination is not fatal for white who can avoid it altogether, i.e. it isn't forcing. Nor does it result an automatically won position for black even if white accepts the trades.
DavidForthoffer wrote:
chawil wrote:
what if white simply moves his king to h1 in either variation? He's then threatening Nxf7 and Bxh6 as well. After 1. ... Bxf2+ 2. Kh1 then 2. ... Bd4 seems good.
Bd4 is probably best but my comment still holds good. White is a pawn down with bish vs knight and the queenside pawns are still isolated and weak.
aright chawil you tell me whats better:
As for your pathetic attitude, suggesting that I consult a basic chess manuel and pointing out that I typed Kxf7 instead of Nxf7 in order to debunk this puzzle: blow me. I never said it won. I said it entered a favorable endgame. Post one instance where Nxf7 or Kh1 is better than accepting the trades. Let's see it. Post the diagram of the exact position. Nxf7 throws away a peice and Kh1 leaves white in the midst of a middle game in which black is dominating his kingside and in particular f2.
depthshaman wrote:
As for your pathetic attitude, suggesting that I consult a basic chess manuel and pointing out that I typed Kxf7 instead of Nxf7 in order to debunk this puzzle: blow me. I never said it won. I said it entered a favorable endgame. Post one instance where Nxf7 or Kh1 is better than accepting the trades. Let's see it. Post the diagram of the exact position. Nxf7 throws away a peice and Kh1 leaves white in the midst of a middle game in which black is dominating his kingside and in particular f2.
Don't be so touchy. Any basic chess manual will explain why you should avoid trades when material down (a 'chess manuel'? perhaps an attempt to reference "Fawlty Towers"?). It's simple really, if you think of chess as a fight; obviously 10 men vs 9 men is preferable to 2 men vs 1 man, particularly if you're the 1 man!
I was just pointing out a better continuation. I never said white was better or even equal. Obviously you're so enamoured of your own brilliance that chess is simply a mirror to allow you to admire your own, imagined, genius. You must be, as they say, " A man who is a legend in his own mind." I have news for you, no one I have encountered on this site is a reasonable player, including myself, the patzer's patzer. So grow up. You can deduct at least 200 points from your rating here when you think in terms of tournament chess. An average tournament rating is between 1400-1600 ELO, Master (a master is a strong amateur) 2200-2400, IM (weak professional) 2400-2500, GMs 2500+. I think you'll find you have a long way to go as do we all.
holy sh!t
This arrose in a game between the computer and I in kan sicilian. I missed this tactic but probably could have won the game had I found it. It surprised me because I couldn't find any way forward in this postition. Its not a game winner, but rather it gaurantees entry into a favorable endgame.