Algebra

Algebra was a useful tool in the Middle Ages when they did not have computers but the Luddites still cling to it.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2512091

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edec-vVlujg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9Gxt1cVg_o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7OAcfDOxHM

Yawn it's still useful. And this comes from someone who HATED Algebra in high school.

You either don't know your mathematics or don't know your history and it's as if you were born yesterday. There's a reason why the financial sector snaps up physicists and mathematicians ahead of those who studied finance.

Moreover, doing finance with a spreadsheet without understanding the mathematics is more dangerous than a fighter pilot who doesn't understand his equipment and can't tell when he's getting false readings. c.f. Reinhart/Rogoff and austerity measures.

And this comes from a computer programmer who writes and uses simulations on a daily basis.

Forget Calculuzzz...

Groan!

I smirked when I noticed that you'd published a quantitative paper for the attention of social scientists. I'm sure they at least found it impressive. ;-)

I wrote a better paper on the use of simulations in science when I was an undergraduate. It was considered ok by a quantitatively proficient audience of particle physicists.

that is very impressive, shah.

Yeah, I was pretty pleased at the time. But these days I consider it far below par.

My prof warned me that would happen: "For the first few months you'll try to show everyone but then you'll avoid bringing it up. After a year, you'll find it embarrassing and actively hide it."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZ1in_CxWZA

Indeed this is true, math skills are very important for most high paying jobs. 

http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/34279186/321096342/name/Baker+Case+Against+Algebra+II.pdf

https://photomath.net

There's also no point in learning to play chess these days because there are chess engines. But luddites like Magnus Carlsen insist it's not a waste of time. :-|

hello goalkeeper

let's put calculus and differential equations in the same trash can with algebra and use finite difference instead. numerical methods trump analytical equations in every field of endeavour. 

LOLOL!! I can see why you publish to social scientists instead of scientists or mathematicians. Social scientists probably think the words sound impressive but a numerate audience would know you're mixing up two different things and probably don't understand either.

Have you considered that that might be the reason why your students struggle with mathematics? ;-)

That article deals with quite a different matter at a different level of education altogether. It makes the mistake journalists make on a routine basis i.e. conflating poor educational practices at high school with the subject itself (whether that subject is mathematics, science, or whatever).

You have to remember that these are people who went to university to read novels. I take their opinions on science education as seriously as I take their opinions on quantum mechanics, public policy or anything else which requires knowledge of the real world rather than a fictional one.

But the article does unwittingly make a good point. There's little to be gained by trying to force feed mathematics to people who just don't get it. The idea that you can teach anyting to anyone is demonstrably false. But it's a poor solution you're offering where you askew an education in favour of a mere pantomime of an education.

You're cheating the students and fooling yourself.

I think you make some good points. Thank you for your contribution and for presenting the other side of the issue.

I'm not sure why you think your youtube clips show anything new or interesting. Visualisation tools have been in common use in teaching STEM disciplines for atleast fifteen to twenty years and possibly longer. They were being used to help students understand the mathematics rather than ignore it. It's hardly "Tomorrow's Research Today". You can attempt to make yourself sound modern by association to technology but no one actually in technology would take you very seriously.

Finance does seem to attract very clever people as well as hicks who see themselves as maverick entrepreneurs but struggle to understand even basic concepts. So there's certainly a market for your message in the latter group but there isn't a market for them.

I have actually had the misfortune of working with someone who had taken your kind of attitude to heart. He spent weeks stumbling around with spreadsheets and java applets and then imagining that he'd made some marvelous breakthrough. Actually, an undergraduate with a pencil could have come to more encompassing conclusions in less than half an hour.

Hey geezers,

I joined this group because it seemed to be a laid back group of adults who could politely air their differences.  If I disagree with you, I will couch it in polite terms and then allow you your opinion.  I'm a teacher; I value math and science.  I value my friends also.

thank you poco. i do understand and i surely respect your position. the real point of my paper is that the so called "phyisics envy" in finance (and also in economics) often places an unnecessary math burden on students and i tried to show that it need not be so. if you have the time to read it i would be very grateful for your comments particularly since you are a teacher.