Covid-19 Discussion (moderated)

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SoupTime4

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/jobs-report-april-2020-unemployment-rate-coronavirus-pandemic-165316546.html

U.S. employers cut a record 20.5 million payrolls, unemployment rate jumps to 14.7%

RonaldJosephCote

  J.C. Penny is filing for bankruptcy. They we're in trouble before the virus but the virus didn't help.

SoupTime4
RonaldJosephCote wrote:

  J.C. Penny is filing for bankruptcy. They we're in trouble before the virus but the virus didn't help.

Except for one trip last year to help a friend.  I couldnt even tell you the last time i was at a mall.

RonaldJosephCote

  I don't know who all those new stores are these days. The last time I went there was Radio Shack....Toys R Us....even Sears....surprise.png

SoupTime4
RonaldJosephCote wrote:

  I don't know who all those new stores are these days. The last time I went there was Radio Shack....Toys R Us....even Sears....

Have always loved Radio Shack, with just walking around looking at things.  Toys R Us was always a fun place to browse.  Sears?  Meh....

DiogenesDue

The virus measures are just finishing off retailers that Amazon already shot through the heart...

To quote Agent Smith;  "No lieutenant, your men are already dead."

The outbreak just hyper-accelerated the death throes.

There will be a problem with market share after all this, but it's largely the same problem that already existed before the virus...brick and mortar cannot compete.  

Anti-trust laws need to be dusted off.  Ever since AT&T was broken up, breaking up companies has been as taboo as trying to pass a new amendment to the Constitution.  Thus the giant "too big to fail" problems the outbreak is bringing into sharp relief.

Meanwhile...tens of thousands of tax-exempt churches have applied for and are getting bailout loans with taxpayer money.  Madness.

Chessiship
btickler wrote:

The virus measures are just finishing off retailers that Amazon already shot through the heart...

To quote Agent Smith;  "No lieutenant, your men are already dead."

The outbreak just hyper-accelerated the death throes.

There will be a problem with market share after all this, but it's largely the same problem that already existed before the virus...brick and mortar cannot compete.  

Anti-trust laws need to be dusted off.  Ever since AT&T was broken up, breaking up companies has been as taboo as trying to pass a new amendment to the Constitution.  Thus the giant "too big to fail" problems the outbreak is bringing into sharp relief.

Meanwhile...tens of thousands of tax-exempt churches have applied for and are getting bailout loans with taxpayer money.  Madness.

yes.

Strangemover

I guess the paupers in the Church of Scientology will survive then... L. Ron would be proud. 

SoupTime4
btickler wrote:

The virus measures are just finishing off retailers that Amazon already shot through the heart...

To quote Agent Smith;  "No lieutenant, your men are already dead."

The outbreak just hyper-accelerated the death throes.

There will be a problem with market share after all this, but it's largely the same problem that already existed before the virus...brick and mortar cannot compete.  

Anti-trust laws need to be dusted off.  Ever since AT&T was broken up, breaking up companies has been as taboo as trying to pass a new amendment to the Constitution.  Thus the giant "too big to fail" problems the outbreak is bringing into sharp relief.

Meanwhile...tens of thousands of tax-exempt churches have applied for and are getting bailout loans with taxpayer money.  Madness.

The only thing churches are exempt from paying taxes on are tithes.

While corporations are given millions, and billions in tax exemptions.  But its the poor churches fault.

SoupTime4
Strangemover wrote:

I guess the paupers in the Church of Scientology will survive then... L. Ron would be proud. 

Unfortunately, whenever you involve the human element.  Things are bound to go wrong.

DiogenesDue
SoupTime4 wrote:

The only thing churches are exempt from paying taxes on are tithes.

While corporations are given millions, and billions in tax exemptions.  But its the poor churches fault.

Those exemptions need to be fixed also, but I am talking about an immediate problem...small businesses with <500 employees are now competing with churches for loans.  Organized religion is a business, as evidenced by church "franchises" applying for loans meant to bail out small businesses wink.png.

If you Google around you will find various religious websites wrestling with the ethics of churches accepting what they themselves are calling "free money".

SoupTime4
btickler wrote:
SoupTime4 wrote:

The only thing churches are exempt from paying taxes on are tithes.

While corporations are given millions, and billions in tax exemptions.  But its the poor churches fault.

Those exemptions need to be fixed also, but I am talking about an immediate problem...small businesses with <50 employees are now competing with churches for loans.  Organized religion is a business, as evidenced by church "franchises" applying for loans meant to bail out small businesses .

"Faith" is fine.  Organized religion is a joke.  Not a single mega corporation should have received a penny of stimulus money.  I was reading where Harvard with a 50 billion dollar dowry was given something like 50 million, or 500 million. 

DiogenesDue
SoupTime4 wrote:
btickler wrote:
SoupTime4 wrote:

The only thing churches are exempt from paying taxes on are tithes.

While corporations are given millions, and billions in tax exemptions.  But its the poor churches fault.

Those exemptions need to be fixed also, but I am talking about an immediate problem...small businesses with <50 employees are now competing with churches for loans.  Organized religion is a business, as evidenced by church "franchises" applying for loans meant to bail out small businesses .

"Faith" is fine.  Organized religion is a joke.  Not a single mega corporation should have received a penny of stimulus money.  I was reading where Harvard with a 50 billion dollar dowry was given something like 50 million, or 500 million. 

9,000 of the 17,000 Catholic churches nationwide have received loans and 12,000-13,000 have applied.  40% of Protestant churches have applied and 23% have received loans.  964 Jewish organizations have applied and 591 have received loans.

The numbers I have listed are not consistent across the board because, as you can imagine, media scrutiny varies by church wink.png.  Some have been dug into more than others.  I was trying to find a total number of churches for most of the major denominations, but since I can only find percentages for some and others are just completely missing, I won't get a total until some media outlet decides to do better homework.

*** Warning:  if you are going to comment on this aspect of the outbreak and the bailouts, keep it tight...this is not a discussion of the merits of various religions, etc. ***

SoupTime4
btickler wrote:
SoupTime4 wrote:
btickler wrote:
SoupTime4 wrote:

The only thing churches are exempt from paying taxes on are tithes.

While corporations are given millions, and billions in tax exemptions.  But its the poor churches fault.

Those exemptions need to be fixed also, but I am talking about an immediate problem...small businesses with <50 employees are now competing with churches for loans.  Organized religion is a business, as evidenced by church "franchises" applying for loans meant to bail out small businesses .

"Faith" is fine.  Organized religion is a joke.  Not a single mega corporation should have received a penny of stimulus money.  I was reading where Harvard with a 50 billion dollar dowry was given something like 50 million, or 500 million. 

9,000 of the 17,000 Catholic churches nationwide have received loans and 12,000-13,000 have applied.  40% of Protestant churches have applied and 23% have received loans.  964 Jewish organizations have applied and 591 have received loans.

The numbers I have listed are not consistent across the board because, as you can imagine, media scrutiny varies by church .  Some have been dug into more than others.

*** Warning:  if you are going to comment on this aspect of the outbreak and the bailouts, keep it tight...this is not a discussion of the merits of various religions, etc. ***

thumbup.png

llama44

Not a surprise big businesses and churches are getting money.

 

Trump removes independent watchdog for coronavirus funds, upending oversight panel

llama44

Or as Faux News reported it:

Jim Carrey's maid's cousin posted a rude tweet about Trump's haircut.

DiogenesDue
llama44 wrote:

Not a surprise big businesses and churches are getting money.

Trump removes independent watchdog for coronavirus funds, upending oversight panel

Yeah...the funny part is that the watchdog was removed for the rest of the $2T bailout package, but the SBA/PPP program still has built-in guidelines/rules.  So, oversight removed for bailouts of >500 employee companies, oversight still in place for the little guys.

The congressional-appointed watchdog and reporting back to congress was written into the law, so...not sure why this isn't in court yet.

llama44
btickler wrote:

not sure why this isn't in court yet.

Because laws aren't for rich and politically powerful people. Laws are for poor people.

llama44

And at least when Republicans are in charge, government money isn't supposed to go to poor people, it goes to billionaires. If your small business is failing you should have worked harder. Meanwhile they get tax credits for owning golf courses (yes that's a real thing).

DiogenesDue
llama44 wrote:

And at least when Republicans are in charge, government money isn't supposed to go to poor people, it goes to billionaires. If your small business is failing you should have worked harder. Meanwhile they get tax credits for owning golf courses (yes that's a real thing).

I get it, Llama...I'm just not saying it wink.png.  

The way this thread stays open is by trailing off with apparent discontent at obviously messed up events without diving into political detail. 

So when I say "not sure why this isn't in court yet"...it's not an entirely true statement.  It's true enough, though.  I am sure it should be in court but not sure why it's not already there and why we're not hearing more about it.  But what is important is that what I said is definitely not a political statement...it takes the reader to a destination, then drops them and leaves the conclusion up to them.

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