Does True Randomness Actually Exist?

Heisenberg and Godel did good work as to discussing the unknowable.
Including with proof.
Good thing they didn't go by Wittgenstein and his 'if we do not know of it we should not speak of it'.
Heisenberg and his good work regarding randomness.
One of the results:
The world now has medical MRI machines.
Although - not enough of them yet.

Yes, you are like someone who doesn't know the rules of chess pontificating about the game at odds with all existing knowledge.

That's why - when you guys are going back-&-forth ----- I try & stay "ringside"

And yet you debated me and Elroch. It's like climbing into the ring

Its like------------ if there is nothing more than discussion pertaining to "mathematical formulas/theories"----------------------- I stay away !

Are you really completely ignorant that a great deal of our human world is based on people doing the right maths to model complex things in a way that works?

It does seem odd that you don't know that modern planes would not exist without a great deal of mathematical modelling. But perhaps it's just when things get complicated. Surely the Wright brothers just guessed and built stuff based on hunches? ABSOLUTELY NOT! Read this carefully and you will have a tiny bit more understanding of why mathematical modelling is important.

Elroch -- Gee Wiz Man --- I never said anything like that -

what I said was --- "IF the Math "transcends" the "chalkboard" into Tangible Reality" ---

then there is no longer any questioning to be had -

Once the Wright Brothers flew into the air - "humans ability to fly was no longer questioned -- no longer a theory" --- it was Empirically Observable & Sensible!

No, scientists can know things a bit earlier than that. Orbital mechanics was understood in the 18th century, once Newton arrived at the very simple law of gravity.

No-one who had not flunked their science classes needed to wait for Sputnik 1 to be launched in 1957 to understand orbital mechanics, still less wait for over 13,000 satellites to be in orbit, launched by an increasingly long list of countries and forming the backbone of a global industry worth over $500 billion per year.

It would take someone to be either blind, deaf and dumb or have no reasoning ability to take that long to catch on.

You give the impression of being so clueless you can't comprehend anyone else having any understanding.

gee wiz - ------------they can make anything up that they want to----------- & SELL IT !

The Wright brothers? Boeing? Airbus SE? The Ford motor company? Samsung?

rephrase --- anything intangible --- & sell it.

@Elroch
A thought: maybe noodles fakes ignorance.
he's probably quite a lot more knowledgeable than 'if I can't see it its not there'.
Greek mathematicians over 2000 years ago calculated the radius of the earth quite accurately.
They had no computers - no printing - no telescopes - no electricity - 
no Bounty paper towels and no Charmin bathroom tissue to squeeze.
But they could still calculate it.
Their level of math was probably well over elementary school math of today.
'Greek sailors and their girlfriends knew the earth is round'.
---------
to calculate: they apparently used at least two methods.
One was noting how the sun's rays and shadows moved up on markers.
And the other was caclulations about how the apparent height of objects visible over the horizon increases as those objects are approached.
Especially in coastal areas.
----------------
In the middle ages - I'm getting the impression that flat-earthism never took hold.
But geocentrism was rampant.
Copernicus didn't get in that much trouble when he challenged geocentrism.
But Galileo did get in trouble - big trouble - because he had proof.

No you don't.

sure I do - when you & Opt are clashing with Diog/History - Elroch on either side -

I lay low & watch

you just contradicted yourself.
But don't worry. In years past you used to do much worse.
But you can forget about pingpong now. I know to respond to other posters instead.

Exactly.
And when noodles pushes his geocentrism too hard in too many places and posters think 'oh not this again! we already know about him. He has to remind us every second??'
then 'things happen'.
There's a member called 'EE' who is much more creative than noodles.
EE keeps coming up with new illogical but creative ideas that could not work and will not happen.
But he's therefore tolerated in more forums because he 'changes'.
And EE has shown he can learn and improve too.

Intangible? All the services that people pay for are tangible. You subscribe to the daftest pointless conspiracy theory ever.

Yes. Geocentrism and flat earthism and their related conspiray theory are indeed 'daft'.
But on the other hand I don't want to put him down - including because he would probably want me and others to do that.
But every member of those groups might have a different take. Somehow.
In the case of noodles - there's little doubt that he gets some kind of payoff for his 'subscription'.
But what is it? Does he know?
------------------------
Orion is about to re-enter the atmosphere.
In about 15 minutes - hopefully they will be safe and radio communication will resume.
They have been flying over the Indian Ocean apparently and will soon be continuing on up over Indoneisia and the pacific and near hawaii and finishing up near San Diego where a specialized ship will pick them up.
In other words they are apparently on a 'great circle' course over a round earth that is very much in both axial spinning motion and also oribiting the sun at gigantic speed.
Hopefully they will survive this next critical few minutes.

yo they're down on solid gr- i mean
yo they're safely splashed down

Noodles, why do people often write "lay down" or "lay low" when the word is "lie"? You aren't laying an egg are you?