Well, that was fun. Just blew 27 bucks at a roadhouse. Pulled pork sandwich, coleslaw, and a long Island ice tea + tip. Sitting next to a fireplace, more women than men, and the waitress would not stop smiling. Not randomness.
Does True Randomness Actually Exist? ( ^&*#^%$&#% )
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i think that outlining the emotional state should come first because it 'll also be last. lol. i mean.. emotions always win over rationality if they are intense enough.
that roadhouse sound like a fine establishment : ), do you mostly do interstate hauling? like overnight trips?
elroch, thats interesting because you're the second one to mention the uncertainty principle, you can look up # 13.
Nov 21, 2019
0
#64
Sillver1 wrote:
[...]
elroch, thats interesting because you're the second one to mention the uncertainty principle, you can look up # 13.
It is a very important example of randomness.
Although the reasoning that shows it is a sort of randomness that is fundamental is quite subtle, one way to think about it with the maths is that there are things that you can quantify about a quantum system and there are combinations of these where if you know one thing accurately, it forces your knowledge of another to be imprecise.
You're correct from a mathematician point of view that there's always uncertainty, but this is not to say that the system itself has a random element inherent to it.
The truth is that we just don't know.
like I dont know how i feel about this pickup : )
Well, I was going to post a long dissertation on an event that happened to me in San Francisco this last trip, just not sure how much sense it would make. Sillver1 yes I do travel interstate, and the trips are usually three days out. Back in Oregon now.
Anyway, there was help when I needed it. A guy pulled a large blue tarp out from under my truck when I had no idea it was even there. I was on a tight street, flowing traffic. The timing was perfect, I don’t lightly dismiss events like these.
Another example would be a time I was walking down a long dark driveway. Could barely see anything. I was probably about half way down when a car crested over the top and shined its lights on me. Well, just one more step (And I mean, one more step.) I would have been in a large puddle of water. Had no idea it was even there.
This example.. Last winter I remember a day we had about a foot of snow dump on us overnight. Well, that day I got stuck in my car on three separate occasions. Damn that day but I’ll tell you what.. All three times there was someone there to help me break free.
In this example, you can believe it or not, but it did happen.. There was a time when I was really depressed and confused. It was a beautiful morning, and I was sitting in my car at a park. I was there a short while when one time I turned my head to look out my passenger side window. What I saw plastered there was a smile face made out of grass blades. The circumference was perfect, the eyes were spaced apart perfectly, the smile was even with everything else, and perfectly spaced.
So, I just got to say that “True Randomness” is where the leaves may fall from a tree, or where the snowflakes may drop type of deal. But the coincidences in a persons life? (Shaking my head.) No, we got to draw the line somewhere.
Nov 23, 2019
0
#70
Sillver1 wrote:
You're correct from a mathematician point of view that there's always uncertainty, but this is not to say that the system itself has a random element inherent to it.
The truth is that we just don't know.
The problem is that you are using the wrong intuitive idea of randomness. Randomness is in the eye of the beholder. It is about not having enough information to say what some observation will be (or is, if the observation is presently concealed). To a person who is about to roll a die, the result of the roll is random. To the same person after the roll, the result of the roll is not random.
The intuitive meaning of the statement about quantum mechanics is that there is randomness to ALL agents (eg people) about future observations of quantum observables. This contrasts with science before quantum mechanics, where it was consistent to believe that if you have a detailed enough information, there was no limit to how complete your knowledge of the future could be - this is the hypothesis of determinism, which only stopped being consistent with observed fact in the 1920s.
Atlas Shrugged
Nov 23, 2019
0
#72
KingAxelson wrote:
Atlas Shrugged
Didn't expect to get the book thrown at me...
its cool that all your stories involved a random stranger saving the day. how about the smiling grass, did it cheer you up?
last year i talked to someone that said semi's are regulated in mileage or hours or whatever. it was loud and i barely understood him. said something about collective hrs that you can borrow from one week to another, or something. didnt make much sense to me.
if you have say 500-800 mile trip, do you must stretch it over night or can you keep going till you done?
what do you make of ayn rand?
Elroch wrote:
Sillver1 wrote:
You're correct from a mathematician point of view that there's always uncertainty, but this is not to say that the system itself has a random element inherent to it.
The truth is that we just don't know.
The problem is that you are using the wrong intuitive idea of randomness. Randomness is in the eye of the beholder. It is about not having enough information to say what some observation will be (or is, if the observation is presently concealed). To a person who is about to roll a die, the result of the roll is random. To the same person after the roll, the result of the roll is not random.
The intuitive meaning of the statement about quantum mechanics is that there is randomness to ALL agents (eg people) about future observations of quantum observables. This contrasts with science before quantum mechanics, where it was consistent to believe that if you have a detailed enough information, there was no limit to how complete your knowledge of the future could be - this is the hypothesis of determinism, which only stopped being consistent with observed fact in the 1920s.
there's no problem or ambiguity here. i was talking explicitly about the same randomness that the beer holder (the op) is questioning. an absolute random. independent from people and observations.
simply put, a randomness that break causality.
Nov 24, 2019
0
#75
Simply put, but wrongly put, unfortunately.
There is no randomness that breaks causality. I am not sure what you have in mind. For any observation, it clearly can become non-random after it is made, but the sort of universal randomness that exists in quantum mechanics applies to all everyone before the observation is made, and not after.
Elroch wrote:
Simply put, but wrongly put, unfortunately.
There is no randomness that breaks causality. I am not sure what you have in mind. For any observation, it clearly can become non-random after it is made, but the sort of universal randomness that exists in quantum mechanics applies to all everyone before the observation is made, and not after.
lol. That’s exactly my point. If you don’t break causality its not a true random.
Nov 24, 2019
0
#77
It makes more sense to continue to use the notion of randomness that does exist.
I am not at all sure you are clear about what you mean by "breaking causality".
breaking causation would be an effect without a cause. (or along that line)
look, this argument has been going on forever and will continue to do so. some people just chose to pick sides and have a pet opinion. me? i like objectivity. and the objective truth is that we just don't know! thats all to it.
i'd offer you a beer, but i think you need something stronger... here's a duck fart shot, lol
Sillver1 wrote:
its cool that all your stories involved a random stranger saving the day. how about the smiling grass, did it cheer you up?
last year i talked to someone that said semi's are regulated in mileage or hours or whatever. it was loud and i barely understood him. said something about collective hrs that you can borrow from one week to another, or something. didnt make much sense to me.
if you have say 500-800 mile trip, do you must stretch it over night or can you keep going till you done?
what do you make of ayn rand?
The smiling grass did not cheer me up Silver, I was that far out of it. Maybe that's why it was given to me. I just sat back staring at it, kind of thinking.. Is that the best you can do? (Thoughts about the sender.) How messed up is that? This event took place in the early 90's. Don't really know what I was using for a phone back then, but it sure as hell didn't have a camera. ; )
Anyway, the truck driving gig is strictly regulated by federal law. We can only work so many hours in a day, then we have to shut it down. Miles don't really matter, as long as your within your (time budget). On the road again tomorrow, and it should be a short trip this time. Thanksgiving etc..
Ayn Rand.. I like her views on 'Objectivism' https://aynrand.org/
Randomness with an order to it-
yea, i remember the old motorola phones, they had a ugh battery, could probably power a bike now days. reminds me we spoke about batteries advances and tesla announced recently that their new generation batteries will last for a million miles. this new technology was supposedly offered for free just last month by some IT institution out of Michigan or something.
regulating daily hours makes much more sense than what he said. thinking back he was probably a drifter and just bullshitt his way thru my curiosity. lol
Ayn rand was quite a character thats for sure, her personal life were a novel on its own. im not sure how much of it is true but they say she was shagging that Nathaniel guy. it wasnt behind her husband back, she actually tried to make him agree to it. dont remember how it ended up, but I cant imagine being in his shoes. now i remember his name, frank O'Connor. I think he was a painter because i saw a painting of his for auction not so long ago. something Japanese i think. will try to look it up...
first comes to mind is 'attention seeking' frame or maybe 'awareness seeking' to be more positive. 2nd is 'popularity by association' 3rd is 'manipulative' or 'slick' and i can go on and on.
maybe all of the above? thats why in my previous comment i mentioned outlining and isolating so it can be a practical tool to focus on just a single aspect instead of being all over the place.
Right, your not supposed to be all over the place in the moment, It has a structure. But when you consider how many different and varied situations one can find themselves in over time.. Then I guess you are all over the place in that regard. But like you said earlier.. ‘isolate’ Each frame is specific unto itself.
And yes to your earlier question, It is my ambition to apply frames to Every aspect of my life. Emotions included, everything’s on the table. I will redouble my efforts to understand this stuff better than the instructors do. : )
And so not to beat a dead horse, you do have me pondering on some of your earlier comments. In regards to the ‘essence’ of life I believe. Not knowing what we really are type questions. lol.. I remember this caption one time and I’ll never forget it. This guy was pulling out the skin on his chest as if to look inside of himself. The caption read.. “How much of me, is me?”