Does True Randomness Actually Exist? ( ^&*#^%$&#% )

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MustangMate

In 1905, Albert Einstein determined that the laws of physics are the same for all non-accelerating observers, and that the speed of light in a vacuum was independent of the motion of all observers. This was the theory of special relativity. It introduced a new framework for all of physics and proposed new concepts of space and time.

Einstein then spent 10 years trying to include acceleration in the theory and published his theory of general relativity in 1915. In it, he determined that massive objects cause a distortion in space-time, which is felt as gravity.

Albert Einstein, in his theory of special relativity, determined that the laws of physics are the same for all non-accelerating observers, and he showed that the speed of light within a vacuum is the same no matter the speed at which an observer travels. As a result, he found that space and time were interwoven into a single continuum known as space-time. Events that occur at the same time for one observer could occur at different times for another.

In 1908, Hermann Minkowski—once one of the math professors of a young Einstein in Zürich—presented a geometric interpretation of special relativity that fused time and the three spatial dimensions of space into a single four-dimensional continuum now known as Minkowski space. A key feature of this interpretation is the formal definition of the spacetime interval. Although measurements of distance and time between events differ for measurements made in different reference frames, the spacetime interval is independent of the inertial frame of reference in which they are recorded.

Minkowski's geometric interpretation of relativity was to prove vital to Einstein's development of his 1915 general theory of relativity, wherein he showed how mass and energy curve flat spacetime into a pseudo-Riemannian manifold.

And the cult began

Somethings are right, but everything is dependent upon accepting Minkowski space as describing reality. The Model of fusing 3 dimensions of space and 1 of time into a 4 dimensional continuum, fits neatly into the ole noggin, but actually lies somewhere out in right field.

Elroch

Science is not fundamentally about explanations: it is about predictive models that work. The real world behaves in a way which is not intuitively comfortable, but the predictions keep working, so the science is good.

First to reject general relativity you need a prediction it makes that is wrong. This hasn't been done.

To replace general relativity, first you need an alternative theory. Then you need to show that your alternative predicts all of the phenomena successfully predicted by general relativity and found to really exist (eg the amount of deflection of light by masses - different to pre-Einstein predictions, black holes, gravitational lensing, gravitational waves, the precession of the orbit of Mercury (and other analogies in other orbiting systems).

Then you need to test your theory in as many contexts as GR and find it works.

But if you want to do what Einstein did, by replacing Newton's theory as the state of the art, you need to find a prediction GR gets wrong and you get right.

But you haven't got to step one yet and don't even see why that is a problem.

Thee_Ghostess_Lola

the larger the circle the more shrunken the circle seems to be compared to the C = 2 pi r  that is true for flat circles.

they say if u take a string and round it around, 1 ft away, from the singular point before the BB ?....its length would be about 6 ft. AND, they say if u round it around the whole U (particle horizon), 1 foot away, its length would also be about 6 ft longer than that of the U's. 

so for all intents ?....its the same & seems pretty flat to me.  Orange-peel.jpg

orange u glad i posted this ?

MustangMate

Your theory Elroch seems to go along the line ... until proven otherwise, the best theory in town wins, which makes it unassailable 

Einsteins calculations are describing how Gravity works. The imagined spacetime continuum provides a model which makes predicting the behavior of two large objects mathematically possible. The "Gravity" is thought to be Space itself, being warped by the influences of an object traveling through it. The maths all fit into a tidy package, new editions pre-stamped.

Elroch
Optimissed wrote:

No-one has proved that there is a composite entity, "space-time".  The curvature of a real entity, space, would act in time no differently from a real entity, space-time

You can personally separate the dimensions of time and space and keep them separate. The issue that you don't appear to understand is that if someone else who is moving relative to you defines dimensions of space and time in the same way, both of these are mixtures of your space and time dimensions (the mixing described by Lorentz transforms). So there is no universal separate space and time, rather there is only a combined entity which is split into space and time in different ways for different observers.

All clear now?

We say "matter acts as if space is curved" but equally, we can say "matter acts as if it interacts in ways that are not wholly governed by Newtonian or Cartesian physics".

That doesn't change the quantitative fact that space-time is curved around mass and energy.

We have similar ambiguity regarding the reality of light, which can act as a particle or as a wave. The idea of the wave itself is also ambiguous. It is described as a probability wave but is the probability inherent in the wave or is it a device used by the mind to understand a different reality?

Difficult questions that merit lengthy discussion.

I have given up on Elroch because he's stopped thinking entirely, sorry to say.

More valid thinking is involved in explaining to you that space and time are not separate than that involved in mistakenly thinking they are.

 

Elroch
MustangMate wrote:

Your theory Elroch seems to go along the line ... until proven otherwise, the best theory in town wins, which makes it unassailable 

Not unassailable. One experiment can make it necessary to replace a theory (such as Newton's) by a more precise one. However, you really need this experiment: assailing a working theory for no reason is foolish.

MustangMate

Space and Time are separate, as is the 3rd Element that makes up the universe - Energy/matter

The 3 elements interact with each other at a given time and location, but remain as Separate, distinct and independent elements.

MustangMate

So all of the matter in the universe would fit into about 1 billion cubic light years, or a cube that's approximately 1,000 light years on each side. That means that only about 0.0000000000000000000042 percent of the universe contains any matter. The universe is a pretty empty place!

Even looking about, what wee are seeing is mostly empty space.Scientists insist there must be more matter, somewhere unseen and undetected, to account for current observations.

The Maths don't add up and the maths never lie. Hence, dark matter and dark energy are born. The ancients called it the aether an unseen medium that all matter travels in.

Thee_Ghostess_Lola

and cold !....they say the ave temp being -270.5 deg C. absolute zero is -273 deg C. so about 2.5 deg from e/t being a solid. and thats why ur not spose to wear a brass....nvm.

Thee_Ghostess_Lola

I thought space and time were separate but interdependent on each other ?

Jaws_2

!Gardez!

Thee_Ghostess_Lola

Your theory Elroch seems to go along the line ... until proven otherwise, the best theory in town wins, which makes it unassailable

if i can say s/t here ?....he thinks via the better mouse trap theory. so when s/o poofs up a theory using math twisties ?....then he'll get on THAT spaceship. iows, he's married to scientism & free-thinking is not in his dna.

MartySmith100

There is no such thing as true randomness.  Every action has a cause and effect.  Everything that happens is caused by some previous event.   There is a reason dice land a certain way, there's a reason a coin lands a certain way, and even computer generated "random numbers" are not truly random.  

Thee_Ghostess_Lola

Everything that happens is caused by some previous event.

then explain to us how & why the so-called BB happened. and while ur at it ?....tell us how matter came to be. iows, how & why s/t comes from n/t.

(see ?....isnt this fun ?!)

Elroch
MartySmith100 wrote:

There is no such thing as true randomness.  Every action has a cause and effect.  Everything that happens is caused by some previous event.   There is a reason dice land a certain way, there's a reason a coin lands a certain way, and even computer generated "random numbers" are not truly random.  

This fails with quantum mechanical systems.

Elroch
MustangMate wrote:

Space and Time are separate,

As I just told you, someone else's space and time are each mixtures of your space and time, and vice versa.

So it is inaccurate to say there is separate space or separate time. What is space or time is crucially dependent on the observer.

An analogy would be to ask if "forward/backward" and "left/right" are separate on the surface of the Earth. Different people point in different directions, so one person's notion of the forward dimension is a mixture of another's notions of the forward and leftward dimensions, depending on the difference in the directions they are pointing. Thus they are not truly separate.

Elroch
MustangMate wrote:

So all of the matter in the universe would fit into about 1 billion cubic light years, or a cube that's approximately 1,000 light years on each side. That means that only about 0.0000000000000000000042 percent of the universe contains any matter. The universe is a pretty empty place!

Even looking about, what wee are seeing is mostly empty space.Scientists insist there must be more matter, somewhere unseen and undetected, to account for current observations.

The Maths don't add up and the maths never lie. Hence, dark matter and dark energy are born. The ancients called it the aether an unseen medium that all matter travels in.

The vacuum exists. It does not have the properties of the aether.

What you describe is the scientific method in action. Observation of the rotation of galaxies showed there was more mass than can be explained by known substances, hence there is a new type of substance. Presently, the distribution of this substance is being mapped in increasing detail, but it has only been detected by gravitational effects so far.

Likewise the observation of the expansion of the Universe showed it was accelerating. Acceleration requires a cause and the explanation known as dark energy works very well.

KingAxelson

Did you take your super thinking energy pills this morning or something Elroch?

Thee_Ghostess_Lola

An analogy would be to ask if "forward/backward" and "left/right" are separate on the surface of the Earth. Different people point in different directions, so one person's notion of the forward dimension is a mixture of another's notions of the forward and leftward dimensions, depending on the difference in the directions they are pointing. Thus they are not truly separate.

elroch's right for once. thats why u hafta say 'to YOUR left' or 'to MY left'. 

KingAxelson

Yeah, and don't forget that on the dance floor either, cos your partner will never forgive you. happy.png