Does True Randomness Actually Exist? ( ^&*#^%$&#% )

Sort:
IJELLYBEANS
Optimissed wrote:

If I may be so bold:

<<Anomalous Monism is a theory about the scientific status of psychology, the physical status of mental events, and the relation between these issues developed by Donald Davidson. It claims that psychology cannot be a science like basic physics, in that it cannot in principle yield exceptionless laws for predicting or explaining human thoughts and actions (mental anomalism).>>

This is a load of complete tosh. I don't blame Stanford. I blame the pseudo-philosophers who take a perfectly natural and accurate principle, that "psychology is a soft science", and then try to make it their own by affixing to it an absolutely idiotic name. No-one should even read academics who use names like that because it should be obvious that they have nothing to offer and they're trying to profit from obscurantism.

 

As was implied in me wording, highly accurate source.

IJELLYBEANS
Optimissed wrote:

Perhaps the "monism" refers to an assumed unity of all "science" and perhaps not. "Anomalous" would refer to the fact that soft science is not capable of being rigorously tested, so it is anomalous with that principle. Or perhaps it doesn't mean that at all, but something else, equally reasonable.

Even so, only an idiot would call it that. Or a pompous, profiteering academic, of course!

 

Work on your alliteration. Pompous, profiteering pseudointellectual acnedemic. Come up with some neologisms at least, they make this whole psychological stance so much more credible. Keyword: acnedemic

IJELLYBEANS

In all seriousness, monism seems to have no clear cut definition, having additionally altered over time. For instance, back when it was associated with religion, it would deemed to philosophical to express religious systems and what not.

Sillver1

"When I actually manage to immerse myself into something, I can excavate it for a considerable time like a filthy archaeologist with ragged jeans. The comparison's probably not all too good, but mint humbugs."

lol. i meant that a youthful mind need only 5 minuts to perceive what will take a sticky mind forever. and i was surely sticky at the time : )

Sillver1

"probably the most diff person to treat is the narcissist. as their ability to be mindful, truthful, & accepting of disorder (the very nature) is basically in absentia from any session. top it all off w/ probable SA denial and there u have it. i mean its really that simple."

imo, when it comes to SA, and because they all share the same addiction for external emotional supplies, it makes sense to consider emotional suppliers as their substance of choice.
the whole thing is really sad because it probably stem from an abusive care giver and roller coast from there. yea, i noticed the speedy wiki too. lol

Sillver1

ill try to explain it one more time.. a conversation about narcissistic behavior and how it relate to a specific individual can not be done in general terms and must involved analyzing the behavior of the person in question.
that would have to make the conversation all about you. make sense now?

Sillver1

"a definition of "true randomness" was needed to make the question meaningful"
its been a long time since you first talked about TR definition and i still didnt see you put forth your final one. its never too late..

Elroch

Please note that if you indulge in any more personal attacks on me or anyone else, or indeed indulge in obsessive discussion of me or anyone else to the detriment of the topic of this forum, I will report you to chess,com. Note that I have a good track record of only doing so when there is a likelihood of action being taken.

Because of your snide behaviour, I will observe that you are a non-paying member of a chess website who has played virtually no chess,, belongs to no groups and has one "friend". If this is your only account, what are you here for? If it isn't, note that is a breach of the site rules.

Regarding a definition of true randomness, this was indeed posted and repeated in the earlier discussion. I will post it again if you can't get it from someone who was more observant at the time.

Thee_Ghostess_Lola

is it worth needing a dbl bypass over ?

here. why donchu chillout and listen to izzy. it is his doodle day uknow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1bFr2SWP1I

Thee_Ghostess_Lola

and s/t else. Hi-Ho wuz one a the very 1st posters on this wonderful thread (#7). and has been very active thruout its run. and that to me speaks volumes.

Elroch

Perhaps you missed the fact that he stated he was clueless about whether real randomness existed and inferred (incorrectly) from this that everyone else was clueless as well, then wandered off topic. That might suit you, but I have an interest in the actual subject.

Thee_Ghostess_Lola

wutchu HAVE is a need to dominate threads (via threats) & puffing up ur chest like...

l4cJwhA.jpg

...u birdbrain !

And dont diss Shakespeare and Tolkien w/ ur st*p*d comparison to their incredible works. wutchu really need 4saying that izza ice cold cyberslap across ur face.

and s/t else there hotshot. if u hadta wonder if u had NPD or not by taking the test ?...then theres a near certainty that u already do !

Sillver1

back in the day i used to breed pigeons. seem like a different life now : )

Sillver1

elroch youre being funny again.. im no saint but feel free to point out which of my comments did you find offensive. we can take an objective look at it together.

Sillver1

"Regarding a definition of true randomness, this was indeed posted and repeated in the earlier discussion. I will post it again if you can't get it from someone who was more observant at the time."

go ahead..

Sillver1

opti.. please.. unless he post his final definition, its really meaningless to try and assume whats on his mind..

Elroch

Constructive suggestion to everyone here (including me): don't discuss other participants at all, To be honest, it gives an infantile impression. Probably best not to discuss yourself either (it encourages the trolls). Discuss something else instead, such as (excuse me for being outrageous) the original topic.

Isn't that reasonable?

Elroch
Sillver1 wrote:

"Regarding a definition of true randomness, this was indeed posted and repeated in the earlier discussion. I will post it again if you can't get it from someone who was more observant at the time."

go ahead..

Sure. Consider an observation which has a priori more than one possible value associated with it (eg whether a photon is vertically polarised.  Such an observation might occur when a photon hits a polarising filter). 

Intuitively, this observation might be random before it has happened but has lost its randomness after it happens, so our definition needs to avoid applying to the future of the event.  The very strongest degree of randomness in the event is that the outcome of the event is random to any point in space time that is not in the future of the event.

A precursor to this definition is a restricted definition of ordinary randomness. An observation somewhere in space-time is random to some other point in space-time if all of the information accessible to that second point in space time (i.e. everything in its past light cone) is inadequate to determine the value of that observation.

To be fully precise it is necessary to quantify randomness, which is the purpose of probability theory. All the above can be restated with quantified randomness, which is measured in bits.

For example, the result of a fair coin toss has more randomness than the result of one that comes down heads 75% of the time, but both have some randomness. To be more precise the fair coin has 1 bit of randomness, the biased coin only has just over 0.8 bits of randomness (The basic coin example is useful for clarifying the fact that the result of the event is random until you reach the future of the event, when it has lost its randomness).

For simple randomness, a classic way (18th century) to get intuition about the degree to which something is random is to imagine being able to bet on it. The degree to which it would be possible to profitably bet can be used to quantify the randomness. A random event (or truly random one if you like) providing odds that correspond to its probabilities is one that you can't make money on in any way by betting with those odds.

==============================================================

So, short version, I suggested a definition of true randomness of an event or observation as meaning that event was random even given the entirety of information accessible to points not in its future.

==============================================================

KingAxelson

Back in the day my best friend 'Glenn Bo' and I caught Lover Boy live in Monterey.

An ocean front club at night time with limited seating. We had the best buds, suds, and seating. So many things I could say about my friend.

I recall the time(s) his girlfriend committed suicide, he crashed his truck at night going north on hwy 17 to a strip club.. lol And then he screwed us by a day in going to the Super Tramp concert. lol..

Random song on Pandora played initiates a total recall.

Thee_Ghostess_Lola

Before it happens they say itsa possibility. but for some events, like elroch typing out this entire thread on a typewriter ? safe to say its impossible. unless-unless u remove the finite elements of time & space. then i guess he'd probably end up doing it (when he hadda 80 ft beard). but u cant, right ? so on that, there is stuff that just wont be happening*.     

azzit happens itsa event. right.

after it happens its data. right.

and after that its interpretation (this is where it gets interesting e/o)

and what follows interpretation is feeling. now. how u feel is ultimately drawn from ur own personal philosophies (not2be confuzed w/experiences). i believe this may be @ the <3 of confirmation bias & poor occams brain. and im not convinced CB can be avoided. after all, were only human, right ?

* name the most random-unusual event EVER that no one ever thought coulda possibly happened. rule: human consciousness reqd @ time of event. lets see how smart u are. warning: teensie tricky.