Facebook and free speech

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MustangMate

Report Slams Facebook For 'Vexing And Heartbreaking Decisions' On Free Speech

MustangMate

Facebook's decisions to put free speech ahead of other values represent "significant setbacks for civil rights," according to an independent audit of the social network's progress in curbing discrimination.

The auditors gave a damning assessment of what they called "vexing and heartbreaking decisions" by Facebook. Among them: Keeping up posts by President Trump that "clearly violated" the company's policies on hate and violent speech and voter suppression; exempting politicians from third-party fact-checking; and being "far too reluctant to adopt strong rules to limit [voting] misinformation and voter suppression."

MustangMate

Perhaps ChessCom should pay close attention as it seems their policies regarding posting in the forums are quite similar.

MustangMate

"What has become increasingly clear is that we have a long way to go," Sheryl Sandberg, Facebook's chief operating officer, wrote in a blog post introducing the auditors' report. "While we won't make every change they call for, we will put more of their proposals into practice," she said.

MustangMate

The thread was intended for community discussion. Could a Mod please make the change? Thnx

blueemu
MustangMate wrote:

The thread was intended for community discussion. Could a Mod please make the change? Thnx

You can do that yourself. Just click into the thread, then go to the right side-bar and hit "Edit Forum Topic". There, you can choose "Community Discussions" (although "Off-Topic" might be better).

MustangMate

So the issue revolves around “permitting” most all speech in reality leads to greater discrimination and hateful conduct.

2nd. By not enforcing stated guidelines proves to have the same effect.

Thanks for help - but right sidebar? Don’t see as such on my phone.

Attention- political/ religious discussion will not be tolerated. ⚖️

blueemu
MustangMate wrote:

Thanks for help - but right sidebar? Don’t see as such on my phone.

Does your phone support a real internet browser? The app uses a different screen layout from a browser.

Failing that, you'll need to use a real computer, or just wait for a Mod to find this thread.

MustangMate

Yep. I’m in a browser. No side-bar

I know how to edit anything I post, but unable to find anything allowing a location change.

MustangMate

Then read the audit Opti - it strongly disagrees. Facebook has admitted to making mistakes and will be making some voluntary changes. I suspect it may end in a court of law.

They have lost major advertisers who agree unchecked “free speech” is damaging.

It becomes an issue of prioritizing values.

blueemu
MustangMate wrote:

Yep. I’m in a browser. No side-bar

I know how to edit anything I post, but unable to find anything allowing a location change.

Strange. Here's how it looks on my Browser:

MustangMate

There she be ! At the bottom haha

Thanx blue emu 👍

blueemu

No problem.

MustangMate

I think Zuckerbergs priority is $ profit. The more posts the more revenue - but at the cost of the community in the long run.

BlindThief
MustangMate wrote:

I think Zuckerbergs priority is $ profit. The more posts the more revenue - but at the cost of the community in the long run.

Well, duh. Look up “Rohingya.” When you’re done with that research assignment, look up facebooks stock value; it closed today at its second highest price, second only to yesterday.

Zuckerberg doesn’t need morals, he got money. And money can’t buy morals, but it can buy morels. Tasty, tasty morels.

MustangMate

All well and good if for people to act responsibly by opposing such behavior. 
Except society does not work as such. They’ll look the other way and never get involved. Inevitably the negative vibes will take over- if not for responsible intervention. 
Community has established guidelines- accepted ones. The problem is they are not enforced. All show. That,s simply nonsense- the Nazi reference.

Response needs basing on the reality and not on some ideal about how people should react.

Think some ideal is being preserved by inaction ? Rubbish

Dsmith42

Unfortunately, the Nazi reference is not nonsense (I really wish it was).  Fascism is one of those "taboo subjects" which has been so completely banished from discussion that scarcely anyone knows what it actually was.

Fascism began in Italy, and most notably it is not an ideology, it is merely a methodology for bringing about specific social conditions.  What social conditions are sought will vary from fascist to fascist, but the tactics by which they are enforced are the same - Censorship and ridicule first, menace both tangible and economic second, and specifically coercing corporate entities into aligning their message with the party's.  This last bit is the most insidious, it's what Mussolini called "Corporatism", distorting the profit motive so that the system works exactly the way you want it to - except that it's net destructive of capital and thus can't be sustained except through taking other people's stuff - sometimes by internal confiscation, but more often through conquest.

The deletion of historical images has, in every historical example, led to a totalitarian terror.  It's impossible to understate how dangerous this is.  And it's downright foolish to think it will be different this time.

Dsmith42

More basically, freedom is an all-or-nothing proposition.  Either you stand for the freedom of all, or instead for your own unique brand of tyranny.  The principle of free speech is that speech shall be countered by speech, and I would go so far as to suggest that anyone who would counter speech with violence, or even just the threat of violence, stands to be counted among the enemy of all mankind.

The idea that "negative vibes" will take over is because there's no objective standard in these kinds of forums - because any standard is inherently arbitrary.  If you want to reach an understanding of others, this requires uncomfortable topics to be patiently examined.  I know that there will be folks who bait you, it's up to you not to take the bait, but instead to stay calm and explain yourself.

These forums are not just for the folks posting, they are for everyone else just reading the posts.  If you stay calm while someone else is trolling, everyone will quickly conclude the other guy is a moron, and for the sake of pushing your own (presumably more correct) opinion, the best thing you can do is to keep them talking.

MustangMate

This is not about suppressing our rights of free speech. Those rights are not absolute. Its mainly about enforcing guidelines already in place. Reasonable guidelines that the community has established and upheld to be fair for everyone. The problems arise when conflicts of interests compete. Facebook states it’s TOA’s but then makes its own interpretations- to allow for more accounts to stay in place $. The audit found decisions were arbitrary and selective- not uniformly implemented. Deleting abusive accounts results in less profit. Those offended are looking the other way. Result - disrespectful speech turns ugly . It no longer is a freedom of expression but freedom to harass and offend.

MustangMate

Freedom is not all or nothing. Sounds like some utopian manifest. For any community to survive there must be standards which are lived by.