I had similar feelings reading student reports and tests. I taught History but English crept in more often than I liked. I also taught adults in business and it was only marginally better in the 1970s.
Is literacy a dying requirement for communication?
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llama_l wrote:
Two comments.
1)
In the past, you only knew a few people, and only read things in print. Both newspapers and books have thorough review processes, with multiple people proofreading pieces multiple times. There were definitely more illiterate people in the past, but you never talked to them (the world was less connected), and they certainly never wrote anything to you.
2)
Consider the source. Many people here are very young (10 to 14 years old), and all over the world, many children are behind academically due to COVID. If it seems like you're chatting with a semi-literate 10 year old, well, that's actually the most likely case if you're on chess.com.
Read #23. Yes I agree with your #1.
Regarding your #2: I have made exceptions for age and background when in conversations here but generally illiteracy as I see it here is not bound so much by age. Yes, younger people are worse but how will they get better? Certainly not from their experiences here.
By the way how did you get back to llama 1?
One only needs to dine out and look around to see how prevalent non-communication is.
Sep 24, 2023
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#26
llama_l wrote:
Festerthetester wrote:
When TV became available to all it was touted as the greatest boon to learning since the printed word. It turned out quite differently. It is arguably the biggest boon to advertising since the soap box.
I fear the internet is on a similar slope downward. It has become a veritable maze of knowledge vs fables. Fact vs fiction. Truth vs lies. However, my gripe is more basic. The problem I see permeates all area of information, even from sources you would least expect: Literacy.
At first it was just young people who could not create a cohesive sentence or spell words with more than one syllable. Now I see an increase in the same from trusted news sources and established businesses. It isn't just the use of acronyms, in itself a sign of lazy writing. It's a general disregard for literacy.
Granted, it is most prevalent in areas that are meaningless, like social media or comments on videos or news items where comments are solicited. But that is an indication of a society that is losing it's grip on rational expression. It's always been true that speech, in any language, most commonly English, is an amalgam of dialects, many of which come from a lesser educated portion of those countries that speak it. However, when writing down thoughts one would think some discipline would prevail.
Do we no longer teach basics in English such as sentence structure, spelling, vocabulary and punctuation? Are they no longer important. Are we headed towards a society that relies solely on artificial intelligence for written communication?
Two comments.
1)
In the past, you only knew a few people, and only read things in print. Both newspapers and books have thorough review processes, with multiple people proofreading pieces multiple times. There were definitely more illiterate people in the past, but you never talked to them (the world was less connected), and they certainly never wrote anything to you.
2)
Consider the source. Many people here are very young (10 to 14 years old), and all over the world, many children are behind academically due to COVID. If it seems like you're chatting with a semi-literate 10 year old, well, that's actually the most likely case if you're on chess.com.
My local newspaper apparently no longer uses spellcheck or proofreaders. Either that, or the proofreaders can no longer spell.
I actually try to dumb down my writing a little these days. Almost all my writing over my lifetime has been in the form of professional communication. As such, it often gets dry and wordy. I use a more plebian dialect in normal conversation. Now I'm retired and trying to loosen up a little but old habits,,,
edit: On reflection, I realized "dumb down" was a poor choice of words. "Changing vernacular" would be more accurate. I don't talk much like I type. Maybe that's a good thing.
A good writer knows the power of the eraser. It's not dumbing down to be concise.
Sep 24, 2023
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#29
Another disturbing trend I've noticed with my local newspaper is that I don't think the reporters ever learned the 5 Ws (and 1 H). That's something I learned in junior high school. Often they will start off an article with a tearful sob story designed to tug at your heartstrings that lasts for most of the article. Near the end of the article, they might get around to the 5 Ws, or maybe not...
For example, a reporter might write an article about a new business opening in town and never bother to mention where this new business is located.
News often isn't. It has mostly become political commentary or social posturing.
EscherehcsE wrote:
Another disturbing trend I've noticed with my local newspaper is that I don't think the reporters ever learned the 5 Ws (and 1 H). That's something I learned in junior high school. Often they will start off an article with a tearful sob story designed to tug at your heartstrings that lasts for most of the article. Near the end of the article, they might get around to the 5 Ws, or maybe not...
For example, a reporter might write an article about a new business opening in town and never bother to mention where this new business is located.
One of my greatest irritations lately is what seems like a trend of various sites, companies, what-have-you, to tell you everything but what you want to know. They'll go to great lengths to explain all the details of an event or product yet completely omit the basics.
The latest was last night. I was looking for eclipse viewing glasses and wanted to make sure a certain pair would be safe enough. The site told me what size they were, how much they weighed, what they were made of, etc. All they said about meeting standards was something like "independently tested to meet US Codes and safety requirements" or some such thing. They never stated which codes they meet nor who did the testing, which were the exact details I wanted to know.
HiramHolliday wrote:
Is this the thread to get a Ph.D in pedancy?🤣
You might mean pedantry.
Sep 24, 2023
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#33
HiramHolliday wrote:
Is this the thread to get a Ph.D in pedancy?🤣
Yes, but you'll need to get in line...
Yeah this was supposed to be about literacy but what the heck.
How about news that talks about videos of some event and doesn't include either a video or a link to one?
Sep 24, 2023
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#35
HiramHolliday wrote:
Is that a straight line…wavy line….please be more specific.🤣
First let me review my knowledge of string theory, and I'll get back to you...
News broadcasts are largely insulting. They all tell you what to think rather than just relaying the news.
At least you choose who brainwashes you.
Even the weather forecasts are sensationalized with "50 million people in the path of the storm" announcements. Like you are somehow lacking in empathy if you're not equally in a panic when it rains.
I try to only read local news which is where the poorly edited pieces are. Speaking of back to the topic.
Literacy in speech is not near as important as in writing. In speech one might be asked to clarify something misunderstood. That's impossible when writing a book or a term paper or resume'.
This is very true. By the time I retired, I interviewed approximately 200 individuals. The number of résumés I perused must have been over 1000 and yes, many were very painful to read. Often I would ask the applicant to describe a certain event in writing while I excused myself from the room for ten minutes. It inevitably revealed if the interviewee had prepared the application or not. For the record, conducting interviews was one of my least favorite duties.