nirvana & meditation

  You cannot invite it either; you have no connection, no say in the matter. Now, understanding this is quite something. But I'll let you see it.

troy, I don't mean to be troublesome but you are fairly draconian.  You are taking will out of people.  Is that correct, we have no will?

Toms mind is on a merry-go-round. No beggining or end. Misconceptions, denial of anything not understood. His favorite is to place his own definition on words, saying Websters is incorrect. An example is the term 'natural' which he defines as "not devine". Don't get caught up in his contradictions and inconsistant ideas. One day free will exists, the next free will is a myth.

Hopefully my post on a simple meditation technigue will have benificial results for tom. 8 weeks of practice to realize benifits. But I fully expect Tom will try it once, dismiss the entire practice and say it is not for him. His methods are better and all that rubbish.

I see his OCD as progressing beyond any repair.

 Haha, draconian, it's been said before.

  Tom said that all along, there is no Free Will--I take it it's the same ( will is will to me), maybe not for him.

  To me, it's a fact: there is nothing one can do to implement something we have no clue about. Now, that means something, as I told Tom in the other thread, it means something big, not capitulation or fatalism.

  Nothing we can do, as a fact, not as one's imposition on another or oneself, but because one sees clearly that there are no bridges. What happens next?

What happens next is we play chess.

  Then we don't see clearly that nothing can be done. Good enough. Let's part with that lack of clarity for now.

Something can be done about everything.  Nothing can happen in life if your  mind is nihilistic.   

  That is what I said: it hasn't been seen, what was pointed out.

  No problem. And so suffering continues, because we never understand that in this field there is no solution.

  Now, this is not a philosophy,nor does it imply that one is lying down under a palm tree. Following a philosophy like nihilsm, for instance, is already doing something about it. That's not it, either.

As I have failed to see your point, you have failed to see mine.  If I can guess at what you are saying I would say the following.  Strawberry fields, nothing is real, there's nothing to get hung about...

  Oh no, everything is real: suffering is real, hate is real--our turning our heads the other way won't make it disappear.

  It is real, all right. But what is the solution?

beer?

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Xming 394.
I see what you're saying and what Troy is saying too.

Sure we have a mental construct of the present but I get troy's point that to absolutely live in the present moment perhaps isn't about thinking .

Troy 400 .
That's frustrating . Almost to say that you can't reach something if you want to .

I have a sense though that I can relate a bit to what you are saying .

After all being mindful isn't about trying but rather about opening ourselves up to experience .

Troy 400.
I really like this post . You're saying that there is an escape from suffering and it's about accepting what is . Not resisting .

Wasn't that definition of nirvana about no desire , no aversion, no delusion ?

How beautiful is that ?

Xming 401. Interesting . I think of the song music to watch girls go by .I'm not sure if there is a definitive right and wrong in terms of what's appropriate in terms of paying attention to women .I know that my wife certainly doesn't want me to view images of scantily dressed women and I am respectful of her feelings . I think that we all have appetites we have to control . Sexual , dietary , and pursuit of pleasure . We can have too much fun . We have to do what's right in terms of being a respectful human being both in terms of what's healthy for us and for the people around us . Be civilised you know ? But to be honest I find if we are mindful we see our inappropriate behaviours and slowly they rescind and the loving , empathetic behaviour triumphs .

Troy 405.
I agree . After all if there is no self how can there be a will ?

So nirvana if it exists comes regardless of the will of a person.

Still after all it's not an every day experience nirvana so how come some experience it and some don't?

Why the variance ?

Okay Troy and Xming I've read your exchange and I'd like to share what I see .

Xming I get your view that we see an idea and strive to make that idea a reality . Whatever it is . Actualise the concept .

Troy.

Your view I think is that all there is is everything . The individual self does not exist and therefore free will does not exist . So there can't be a drive towards actualisation . Also as you've said the truth is continually changing anyway so it we were to strive towards an idea by the time we got there it would be out of date and what we captured would be about to change anyway .

My own view is that we can reach a greater peace thorough letting go of trying to understand and just being but I accept your point Troy that this isn't truly letting go .

I suppose that a person naturally is at the point they are willing to let go or they aren't .

I have something like that to relate . I lost my mind , just about . Man I really did .

I'll tell you what I realised in those moments that whatever the hell I thought I knew I didn't .

Because whatever was in that jumbled mind of mind was clearly wrong .

Sometimes you know you have to be willing to tear up your view of reality and start again .


I've heard that people that have become spiritually enlightened have experienced massive trauma and maybe that's why .

Wow Nikprit that was fun thank you . I am actually aware of my body acutely when I observe my consciousness , Samantha I think.

but look what about this point Troy is making ? He's saying if we let go for a purpose we aren't truly letting go . There's sense in that no ?

Nikprit maybe your cup is half full and you ought to empty it . Have nothing you know ?

I'm not sure but maybe . Anyway great posts. Thank you .

I miss Fb here though . Fb tell us about zen and having nothing !

  Why do you say Nirvana is not an everyday experience? If it is not, then it is but an escape of the mind, found through practice or drugs.

  Nirvana doesn't come from an artificial, isolated experience, but from life itself.