nirvana & meditation

Seems tom is incapable of expressing any thought without a double negative. Must be his minds way of accepting his condratictory thoughts.

Tom wrires:

By the way I don't think , I observe my thoughts , it's not the same .

You got that right! (The not thinking part. hav'nt a clue what observing toughts means. I'm sure tom made this terminology out of thin air, as if he's a camcorder)

I see why Nikprit asked you not to paraphrase him. I never said that meditation eliminates thinking!

Meditation is a way to calm the running conversations you're having with yourself, all the extraneous thoughts that clutter your mind, which interferes with getting to the truth.

This has all been explained to you before. So, I've concluded that you aren't interested in actually "meditating," by definition.

Also, you have stated many times that there is no free will, no self, everything is determined, therefore my question is, why are you asking what you are, when you've already determined what you are. 

Look at meditation this way: You're trying to find a station on the radio, but you get nothing but static. You have to eliminate the static in order to get the clarity.

Does that make sense?

Speaking of 'eliminating static'; One common alternative, is to find a 'station' {in this case 'topic'}.. that you weren't planning on temporarily occupying your attention - But, nevertheless .. You found it helpful, in getting-your-mind, distracted from; Your immediate-and- 'off-putting' ..'Here-and-Now'!  [ :

http://www.desertsun.com/story/life/entertainment/arts/2016/04/21/patrick-blythe-sculptor-glass-stone/81781426/

How to achieve that virtual 'meditative nirvana'.. which our Reality insists, that, short of chemical substance abuse; Must be preceded by somewhat prolonged hours of wakefulness ..{for better or worse!}

Meditation is about training your mind to be able to focus on what you choose to focus on rather than passively being trapped in a stream of thoughts that you have no control over. This is why chanting, guided meditation, focusing on breathing all lead to the same result. You choose what you want to focus on and force yourself to keep coming back to that focus no matter what other stray thoughts pop into your mind. Simply choosing to observe whatever pops into your mind is not meditation as you are allowing yourself to have no control over your thoughts. Meditation is DIFFICULT. It is an exercise.

I am an amateur meditator and this is my understanding of the purpose of meditation in a secular context.

This type of meditation has no spiritual meaning to me, although I admit at times I have had spiritual thoughts as a result.

True meditation does train your mind to let go of the stray garbage and allow you to focus intensely on whatever you choose. Meditation makes you better at every single task that requires mental focus. I have experienced this first hand.

tomtrytostay wrote:

That's a really great post Wolfbird and actually I absolutely see where you are coming from . I'm sorry I misquoted you . Having said that though perhaps it's a part of communication to say do you mean this ? That said I get it's frustrating when other people hear you've said something you haven't . But guys let me explain why I'm confused and maybe you can help .I do however 100 percent get the idea that mediation is about seeing the truth outside of thought .

Sentance by Sentance. You do not see where wolf bird is coming from. You twisted his words into something that was not said or intended.

2nd.It is not a part of communication. 3rd. You hear nothing...how can you when you never listen? 4th. Meditation is not about seeing truth outside I f thought. That is your interpretation, which is so misguided you're the proverbial fool. Here is a new contributor Groove Master giving you once again what meditation is. And once again you butcher it.

Meditation is not about seeing anything. It is not about observing your messed up thoughts tom. It is so simple it is well above your OCD mind to comprehend. I sure hope you're not bi-polar, but it's becoming quite obvious your disorder goes beyond the basic diagnosis.

Still not getting anywhere.  Definition: Insanity...doing the same think over and over again expecting a different result each time.

The life of a rock does the same thing over and over and doesn't expect any different result.  Rocks are smarter than humans.  They are not insane.

I already have.  Nothing more to say.  Long live rocks!

Tom I think what you consider "mindfulness" is really a "mind full of mess."

You don't really know how pointless, confusing, and cluttered your thoughts are until you experience a true meditative state.

You also keep wanting there to be some sort of truth or meaning behind it. You're trying too hard. There is no meaning. You sit there and focus on one SIMPLE thing for a prolonged period of time. That's it. No mysticism or contemplation involved during meditation. The most profound thought I've had regarding meditation is that no-thought brings a state of peace you simply cannot achieve by rationalizing and trying to make sense of your existence. Meditation allows you to see how pointless and cyclical most of your thoughts are. Meditation is about putting faith in the fact that the absence of contemplation is the ultimate truth. Contemplation in circles (like you are doing) brings obsession and madness into the fore.

I'll give you a personal example of what I mean. I was hurt by a lady some months ago, and I've spent a lot of that time trying to make sense of it, why did things go the way they went. I desperately wanted there to be a concrete reason and lesson I could gain from that experience. But I found myself contemplating the same ideas over and over and it got me no where. I've found that letting it go and to stop looking for a reason or meaning behind events is the only way to move on. To accept there is no meaning and move forward. To live for what I have right now and make the most of future opportunities. Now replace "lady" with "existential confusion" and reread that. We as humans can become hurt by not knowing why or how we ended up in this meaningless, seemingly cruel world. Contemplating why it is so only increases the confusion and hurt. Move on. If this whole thing is because you want to feel like you're special and "helping" people out of your "love," well all I can say to that is seek help. You are not a special snowflake. You are an existentially confused being just like the rest of us. You are not helping anyone and your sentiments of love are trivial and meaningless at best, fake and narcissistic at worst.

You think this "journey" of yours has some sort of possible solution and outcome. You are hopelessly obsessed. The only way to find the truth is to stop looking for it.

This is my last reply in this thread as well, as I'm quite certain I have nothing else to add. being somewhat certain you'll fail to understand what I'm saying here, if you want a response to your next post, reread this one.

Another timely, and {I think}, needed insertion, of a potentially 'mind-broadening'/Non-sequitur, 'Hot Tip'!  0:

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thank you groove master and I wish you luck. 

I guess when you meditate you are mindful but when you are mindful you aren't meditating 

I don't understand what you mean to be "mindful."

In my view the meditative state is the closest thing you can get to being truly mindful. How then can you be mindful without meditation? To me that would mean applying the meditative state to your other activities. If I'm playing chess this would mean I am entirely focused on the game and nothing else, like meditation. If you are simply "observing" a random flow of thoughts without direction, you are not being mindful. You are being the passive prisoner to your thoughts. Mindfulness implies a level of control over your focus.