nirvana & meditation - Chess Forums - Page 9

tomtrytostay · 2016-04-10T03:31:44-07:00

I don't know much about either of these things but I'm interested . If anyone would like to share their knowledge or experience I'd love to hear .I'd prefer to read the words of the contributors rather than links though , the information is more accessible that way .Thank you .

Pulpofeira

Apr 12, 2016

0

#161

xming escribió:

Pulpofeira wrote:

I'm sure there's a self when I'm in a hurry to take a dump in the morning. Sorry for being so crude, but I think this sums up my point of view on the matter.

I think the self is not the matter in the intestinal tract looking for the exit

My point is you are very aware of yourself in that trance.

xming

Apr 12, 2016

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#162

trysts wrote:

tomtrytostay wrote:

Trysts 80.
You're smarter than I but I'll try to keep up .

I'm thinking this idea of a true self to me is about being entirely separate from outside influence. So not a conditioned self . Nor even perhaps a self related to physical needs .

Don't be confused by philosophical terminology that I've read enough of to kind of understand to me being smarter than anyone else on earth, Tom. I don't:)

The emboldened statement above is probably what other philosophers like David Hume rejected--that there is such a thing, a "self" as an almost mystical thing, pre-formed prior to outside influence. I don't believe in that. I never read any eastern philosophy, I've only read western philosophy, but "nirvana" sounds like it can also be a drug-induced state of mind, and not necessarily achieved through meditation?

Drug induced state of mind? BWAHAHAHA!

xming

Apr 12, 2016

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#163

Lucien_Quest wrote:

"Nirvana" is a pretty specific Sanskrit term, adapted from the Pali "Nibbana" (the language of the original Gautama Buddha), loosely translated as "extinguishment".

It's a state of being free of desires, i.e. not wanting to be in contact with that which one is not in contact with, and also not wanting to not be in contact with that which one is in contact with.

According to Buddhist texts, it can only be reached by comprehending the "Four Noble Truths" (which deliniate the pervasive discontent inherent in conditioned being) and following the "Eightfold Path" (right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right work, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration).

If any one of these elements of the path is not adhered to, Nirvana cannot be attained.

While some drug states can mimic the experience of Nirvana, and perhaps provide a glimpse of what one is aiming for, it's not a true state of enightenment, because the drug must wear off, and one must "descend" rapidly back to ordinary conciousness, which can be quite an unpleasant experience.

What is being described re meditation leading to a state of "no thought" is not equivalent to Nirvana as such, but is known as "Nirvikalpa Samadhi" in Sanskrit, and is the first of the higher stages of Samadhi (bliss).

Samadhi, until the final stage is reached (Satchidananda) is temporary by nature, and therefore inherently not a true representation of what Nirvana is like, or so I've heard.

Awesome, thanks.

Catastrophy-Kitteh

Apr 12, 2016

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#164

Nirvana sounds like the capstone of Hawkins scale.

xming

Apr 12, 2016

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#165

Pulpofeira wrote:

xming escribió:

Pulpofeira wrote:

I'm sure there's a self when I'm in a hurry to take a dump in the morning. Sorry for being so crude, but I think this sums up my point of view on the matter.

I think the self is not the matter in the intestinal tract looking for the exit

My point is you are very aware of yourself in that trance.

I got that. I thought my humor could beat up your humor. Sorry.

xming

Apr 12, 2016

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#166

Well, I have to go to the gym now and meditate. See you later. In the meantime, stop thinking.

Catastrophy-Kitteh

Apr 12, 2016

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#167

one minutes silence please.

tomtrytostay

Apr 12, 2016

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#168

I have to leave this thread now . Too much posting from me for my wife . Thanks and bye .

Pulpofeira

Apr 12, 2016

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#169

No need to be sorry!

Catastrophy-Kitteh

Apr 12, 2016

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#170

he shouldnt be much longer, any second now.

troy7915

Apr 12, 2016

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#171

mdinnerspace wrote:

Your "understanding" trysts is incorrect. xming in toms thread 'mindfulness' explains quite nicely the true meaning/goal of meditation.

Meditation has no goal, nor is it a technique. It also doesn't happen 'on command'.

xming

Apr 12, 2016

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#172

All behaviors are goal orientated. Tell me one that isn't. True, it is not a technique. If Meditation has no goal, I doubt that the Buddha, or others, would have recommended it.

Catastrophy-Kitteh

Apr 12, 2016

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#173

he means the meditation quoted in philosophy, no beginning and no end, although he doesn't actually quote anything, he figures it all out himself :)

xming

Apr 12, 2016

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#174

Catastrophy-Kitteh wrote:

he means the meditation quoted in philosophy, no beginning and no end, although he doesn't actually quote anything, he figures it all out himself :)

Ok, my apologies if that is what he meant. How do you know what he meant? He needs to clarify that. What meditation quoted in what philosophy?

Catastrophy-Kitteh

Apr 12, 2016

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#175

that would be letting troy's cat out of the bag :)

xming

Apr 12, 2016

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#176

The act of meditation (better known as concentration) has a goal. The state of true meditation is a goal that a person aspires to. Is that what he means? If 'meditation' is seen as an object, like a bowl or a rock, then it may not have a goal. But I don't think it is like an object just sitting there without a goal.

xming

Apr 12, 2016

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#177

So maybe he means meditation is like empty space...in and of itself it just is but is not an object?

mdinnerspace

Apr 12, 2016

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#178

Terms need defining before rational debate can take place.

I used the term "technigue" to describe different ways of meditation. 2 examples are a mantra and focused breathing. There are others. They share the same goal , the 1st of which is to quite the mind of thought.

xming

Apr 12, 2016

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#179

agree. The thing I try to keep my eye on is the noun vs the verb.

We can be meditating = verb

We can experience meditation = noun (but not really an object)

mdinnerspace

Apr 12, 2016

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#180

And xming.. I have to now disagree with your saying meditation is better known as concentration.

This is misleading and an incorrect definition.

Alot better to describe meditation as:

A focusing of one's awareness.

There is a substantial difference between the 2 definitions .

"Concentrarion" has the connotation of implying thought is used. As in concentrating on a particular math problem.

Where as focusing awareness does not. It is more akin to "feeling, being aware of without actually thinking of". The mind and body naturally enter a different state of consciousness.

Focus and concentrate are almost synonymous. The difference is 'awareness'. Had that feeling someone is watching you? It is 1st just a feeling, then the thought springs to mind. 'Instinctual' comes to mind. Our initial instincts 1st manifest themselves as a 'feeling, being aware of' , not a specific thought.

Some call it a higher state. Some claim they achieve enlightenment. Some claim nirvana exists there at the end of the path.

I couldn't tell anyone anything about any of that. Just that it works and can be benificial for the mind and body.