Don't come back as a pelican. You'll be faced with an enormous bill.
genius!
If it's possible that love or conciousness can be separate from matter then perhaps suffering can be avoided but as long as we live and die, suffering is part of the equation. I suppose the fact is how could we have pleasure without pain also existing.
(Tom), when you have stated, that you feel you are love.. i think is the intended experience we are here for. : ) when reading the 'four noble truth' of Buddhism, i was surprised a little that love is not testified about? i can't believe, that we are meant for so much suffering, which (we) have perpetuated, for age after age.. To alleviate harsh conditions, for each other, is our purpose, i think?/ the opposite, to hold that belief, 'life has no purpose" is the ultimate obstacle to get out of this bondage.
I love the suggestion that what I am here for is to recognise, who am I is love, that's really interesting to me.I'm sorry though I think that it' s an illusion we can free either ourselves or others from suffering, it's just impossible. Think about it, even if you were able to create a world where no one was ill, eventually we'd lose people, people would die, is there a greater suffering than to lose someone we love. Free yourself from the illusion you can avoid suffering or cause others to, you can't. That doesn't mean that life can't be worthwhile, some of our best experiences come through change and include pain as well as pleasure.It's about experiencing interesting things, right?
going to be a little controversial here but I'm coming from a good place searching for the truth. It seems to me that people who believe they don't have a soul but they do have an identity that's more than just the result of chemicals creating an illusion hold an illogical belief. For me it's sensible to take one of these two opposing views. One we have a soul, we have free will , we are something entirely separate from the physical world, always have been and always will be. Two we are really just part of the material world, the result of an illusion created by chemical reactions, we don't have freewill, we don't really exist at all in any meaningful way, we are part of a universe bound by causality. To me to believe we don't have a soul but we truly have an identity and truly have freewill just doesn't add up. Where in the world would this identity and freewill come from, just through a bunch of chemicals interacting, it's sounds entirely preposterous to me. I must admit when my first child was born, I thought there must be something divine about life, because as smart as us people are, we couldn't come close to creating something as incredible as a child, not through our own intelligence I mean.
It's a good thing.
Best use our energies for better things :)
perfect, I love this thread and I love the contributors, if anyone comes to this thread with hate in their heart they better watch out because we'll flood them with love!
Sounds like you are taking the religious route.
for me it's one or the other that's all, myself I've an open and enquiring mind, but the hybrid belief that seems to be the popular view just doesn't seem to make any sense at all to me.
okay one more thing from me, I love that I can conceptualise a problem or a solution and share it, and I'd like others to feel they can do the same, I promise to read every single one. So, I think that we can remove intelligence from our attempt to define identity. Intelligence is a result of a high functioning brain, but that's not our identity, In the same way physical speed is a result of a high functioning body but that's clearly not our identity. So ability is not us. Can we strip away layers in this way untill we are left with nothing, or is there something that will remain that is truely us? It feels as though the answer is tantalisingly within our grasp. Also beliefs can't be our true identity, as children we believe in Father Christmas does that define our identity then? Seems more likely that our true identity is separate from beliefs that we may adopt and it follows our identity is separate from any experiences we may have. We are not born with knowledge so knowledge is not our identity. So what's left. The fact that we percieve and the fact we will a response. We will our bodies to move our mind to think. Is this core identity individual or do we all share the same way of perceiving and would all will the same way if we all had the same perceptions. Is our will dependant on being part of a human body or would we will the same without emotion. I believe we would still will the same way, because when we perceive good and evil we naturally behave accordingly. For example when a person perceives that a blind person needs help. naturally they will think how can I help? Maybe that's it the fact we care, after all why should just because we recognise good mean that we behave in that way. It's interesting to me we care, it could be a clue that we really do have a soul?
Tom: If you were a turkey, I just know you would be looking forward to Christmas.
not anymore my friend.
The word " thought" means "outside". The ego or self put together by thought is the outside process sent within.
Yourself is living, thought is dead, thought springs all the illusions.
this was posted a while ago and I said I disagreed but I was wrong, if we consider Einstein's insights that he achieved through thought experiments, it's clear that we can will thought. Love this guy.
I'm trying to catch this cat that hangs out in our backyard and bring it in the house before it gets below zero winter. I named it Beige. Beige is starting to respond to its given name. It's been a month and half. Before, as soon as it hears me coming it would dart away. Now, it doesn't. I call its name, it will just sit there looking at me. It has allowed me to come within 6 feet of it.
The whole thing has got me thinking - in the wild, the fight or flight is a constant for animals.
Human societies have evolved to a level where we don't live in this constant of "fight or flight" - laws, customs, traditions, homes with locks on them....all this daily peaceful existence have afforded humans to better organize for larger activities of destruction like wars and no holds bar plundering of the planet, as well as the inventions of ways to more effectively do them...
Each of us are just one of the cells of this leviathan that is the human race...
There is a zero-sum war between this leviathan and itself, the planet its battlefield.
My identity is insignificant in the scheme and scale of things.
some people believe that all human beings are part of a joint thing, even things like the planet's eco system are part of some sort of inelligent colloborative thing. I'm not sure, but I find it to be probable that there is a much more complex reality to identity then the a b c defition the average person would state. One thing that doesn't really tally with the view that we are in this together is how we are destroying the future for our species. Maybe in evolutionary terms it is everyman for themselves, or maybe we are just so effective at surviving, the planet doesn't hold enough resourcess to keep us all in energy.
The material world is spirit too we are not seperate from it it exists as part of our consciousness.
Matter does not exist the way people think of it.
I tell you what, you say some very interesting things, this is a bit like good and evil exist we just percieve it, and the falling tree in the wood makes a vibration but we call it a sound if we hear it. I'd love you to let rip and just tell us completely what your view of identity is. I can't promise that I will agree with it, but I can promise that I will listen to it intently.
I'm trying to catch this cat that hangs out in our backyard and bring it in the house before it gets below zero winter. I named it Beige. Beige is starting to respond to its given name. It's been a month and half. Before, as soon as it hears me coming it would dart away. Now, it doesn't. I call its name, it will just sit there looking at me. It has allowed me to come within 6 feet of it.
The whole thing has got me thinking - in the wild, the fight or flight is a constant for animals.
Human societies have evolved to a level where we don't live in this constant of "fight or flight" - laws, customs, traditions, homes with locks on them....all this daily peaceful existence have afforded humans to better organize for larger activities of destruction like wars and no holds bar plundering of the planet, as well as the inventions of ways to more effectively do them...
Each of us are just one of the cells of this leviathan that is the human race...
There is a zero-sum war between this leviathan and itself, the planet its battlefield.
My identity is insignificant in the scheme and scale of things.
some people believe that all human beings are part of a joint thing, even things like the planet's eco system are part of some sort of inelligent colloborative thing. I'm not sure, but I find it to be probable that there is a much more complex reality to identity then the a b c defition the average person would state. One thing that doesn't really tally with the view that we are in this together is how we are destroying the future for our species. Maybe in evolutionary terms it is everyman for themselves, or maybe we are just so effective at surviving, the planet doesn't hold enough resourcess to keep us all in energy.
When we think of termites, bees or of ants, we don't see each of them as individual with unique identities that resists the will of the collective...
I don't know that we are any different, except for that fact that we may be canibalistic too...(canibalistic not in the literal sense of the word)...
I'm trying to catch this cat that hangs out in our backyard and bring it in the house before it gets below zero winter. I named it Beige. Beige is starting to respond to its given name. It's been a month and half. Before, as soon as it hears me coming it would dart away. Now, it doesn't. I call its name, it will just sit there looking at me. It has allowed me to come within 6 feet of it.
The whole thing has got me thinking - in the wild, the fight or flight is a constant for animals.
Human societies have evolved to a level where we don't live in this constant of "fight or flight" - laws, customs, traditions, homes with locks on them....all this daily peaceful existence have afforded humans to better organize for larger activities of destruction like wars and no holds bar plundering of the planet, as well as the inventions of ways to more effectively do them...
Each of us are just one of the cells of this leviathan that is the human race...
There is a zero-sum war between this leviathan and itself, the planet its battlefield.
My identity is insignificant in the scheme and scale of things.
some people believe that all human beings are part of a joint thing, even things like the planet's eco system are part of some sort of inelligent colloborative thing. I'm not sure, but I find it to be probable that there is a much more complex reality to identity then the a b c defition the average person would state. One thing that doesn't really tally with the view that we are in this together is how we are destroying the future for our species. Maybe in evolutionary terms it is everyman for themselves, or maybe we are just so effective at surviving, the planet doesn't hold enough resourcess to keep us all in energy.
When we think of termites, bees or of ants, we don't see each of them as individual with unique identities that resists the will of the collective...
I don't know that we are any different, except for that fact that we may be canibalistic too...(canibalistic not in the literal sense of the word)...
this is another great slant on the question of what is identity, there seems to be so many clues, that it's inevitable we gain a terrific understanding if we continue to try. Could it be that the bees combined behaviour is connected to the fact they couldn't recognise their own reflection. They are not aware that they percieve that they think that they act. If they were would some of them say, you know what today I'm going to do something new, something different, something for me! Even perhaps something that was against the groups interests and the bees own interests. On a conversational note, I heard bees get a shot of caffeine when they pollinate a flower, apparently it helps them remember where the flower is and gives them a boost, I kid you not!
I want to say a hearfelt thank you to all those who have taken the time to contribute, everything comes to an end and for me the end to the thread is now, goodbye, goodluck and thank you, I love every single one of you!
Don't come back as a pelican. You'll be faced with an enormous bill.
: )