Tom

It's interesting to me FB that you get such a negative reaction . As far as I can tell the way you attack people is generally pretty light.

I think it's just you are consistent !

None of us really know eachother? Tom, you break my heart. Kidding, welcome back.

I'd imagine, the following has Some value.. {whether you *agree or disagree}.. and found on the News page, under -'determinism'.

* which incidentally.. to those who disagree, re. Anything - I'm reminded of the quote by 'Einstein'? - "I never learned anything, from a person whom I was in agreement with."{!}

http://www.pbs.org/genius-by-stephen-hawking/blogs/extras/episode-3-recap/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=pbsofficial&utm_campaign=genius_2016&hootPostID=b3dcbf99c6ef4bd3b3ea231101750f23

Hi fh. I'm coming off vacation here tomorrow .

Sure we know people we talk to in games but here on the threads . Not really .

Lovely SA.

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And the following, was Also found on the News page, under the 'keyword' - 'simulation.' o:

 

The entire universe we see around us may be nothing more than a simulation, according to famed astronomer Neil DeGresse Tyson. This theory has been debated by astronomers and astrophysicists for decades, and now, the host of the Cosmos: A Spacetime Odyssey states the concept is, in all probability, the truth.

The Issac Asimov Memorial Debate held at the Hayden Planetarium provided researchers with a forum for discussing unusual ideas about the universe. It was here that Tyson made his pronouncement.

"What may have started as a science fiction speculation — that perhaps the universe as we know it is actually a computer simulation — has become a serious line of theoretical and experimental investigation among physicists, astrophysicists, and philosophers," the American Museum of Natural History reported.

The astronomer made the following argument in an effort to address the question. If the Cosmos is truly infinite, then every possibility has occurred somewhere. If it is possible to simulate the universe in a Matrix-type simulation, then one or more alien civilizations (in an infinite universe) has already accomplished that feat. Therefore, it stands to reason that we likely live within such a virtual reality.

To add an extra layer of confusion to the idea, it may be possible that members of virtual civilizations may, in turn, create their own simulated Cosmos. If this is the case, there may be an infinite number of virtual universes, and only one "real" one.

Philosophers have spent centuries asking one question — how do we know reality is reality? The 17th Century French philosopher Rene Descartes summed up his thoughts on the subject with the Latin phrase "Cogito ergo sum," or "I think, therefore I am."  In short, he reasoned, the fact that the question is being asked requires a thought that exists in space and time.

If aliens far more advanced than human simulated the universe, they may think of our race as primitive, slow-witted animals.

"And if that's the case, it is easy for me to imagine that everything in our lives is just the creation of some other entity for their entertainment. I'm saying, the day we learn that it is true, I will be the only one in the room saying, I'm not surprised," Tyson said.

Tyson spent time on Earth Day tweeting facts about the Earth, aimed at showing how small humans are in the grand scheme of the Cosmos.

interesting and relevant V3 works tip top! 

To summarize :             "Cogito ergo sum" René Descartes

I think therefore I am. Hmm . I love this stuff !

I'd like to take a look at that .
Thought feeling behaviour . They all exist . It's silly to argue otherwise because we see clearly these things exist.

Descartes could have said I feel therefore I am . Or I behave therefore I am.

Sometimes I wonder if thought is a type of behaviour. Some types of thought.

For example we can consciously imagine ourselves on a desert island relaxing in the sunshine.

We can deliberately imagine things.

Also we can make a decision to sort out our finances by analysing our resources.

Again that's something we can decide to do.

Rather than the involuntary thoughts that occur when we notice something .

I wonder what he meant by I think .

For example I have spent years noticing how I think and I see different patterns

I see the pure experience , this is when we just notice. We notice the world and we notice our thoughts in response. We just observe them.

I see the calculating, the scheming, the solving. Just analysis you know. Something we decide to do.

Then I see the absent mindedness.

You know the times we drive home without any conscious thought at all .

Then the day dreaming, the fantasising. I guess that's sometimes deliberate and other times it just happens.

I wonder what type of thought did he mean .

He could have meant I observe therefore I am. Or I deliberately analyse therefore I am .

If he meant analyse then really what we was saying was I behave therefore I am for we can decide whether or not to worry.

If he meant observe then he was basically stating that we are consciousness. Consciousness is generic of course .

My guess is he meant I'm conscious therefore I am.

Of course a lot of our thinking we aren't conscious of. As I say we can drive home in a world of our own but it would be silly to say we never thought about anything .

In the orthodox Christian 'world view' - Not every 'thought' is worthwhile to consider - As in 'temptation'.

 Though admittedly - Between our 'fallen' human-nature - And the process of sometimes 'dealing' with that temptation - The consequences, {regardless of the 'Sin' involved}.. Can result, in the 'hardening' of ones own conscience! o:

I think that a lot of this is about possession. Calm down SA.

What I mean is we notice these thoughts and believe we own them. We don't really. They aren't within our control

Then the consciousness itself. We believe we own that .

We don't. We really don't.

Because all there is is nature the truth is I doesn't exist at all.

I wonder why the delusion began that the I exists.

I have a hunch about it . It's an accident of sorts.

So obviously to be a natural predator there has to be observation. For example we can look at prey and say okay well the animal we need is travelling at a certain speed and we need to go this way or that at this or that speed to intercept.

So naturally predators need to have a degree of observation and intelligence. Not so clear that's free will though right?

Then this happened....

The intelligence grew and became more and more refined . Perhaps the consciousness too.

Finally the eureka moment where a human being noticed itself.

Noticed that it had a body, and indeed a series of thoughts and feelings and behaviours. Beliefs, ideas and knowledges.

I guess said human being was used to having possessions.

This is my spear, my cave, my wife !!!

Shouldn't call a wife a possession.

So now it's okay I own this. I own this thought feeling and behaviour and body. I can do with it what I like. Nope.

It's not like that. It's a trick of the light.

All there is and ever was is nature.

We naturally evolved to be so smart that we noticed all the patterns except the pattern behind everything which is causality.

Sure thought exists, observation exists, but nothing is owned. It just is .

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SA 453.

I'm reminded me of the truth that you'll never experience something unbearable that you can avoid .

Shit happens to us but if we can get out of it we will .

There's a comfort in knowing though that we can't control everything and the worst of our experience is beyond our control. Liberating.

Take your Jesus. If he could bear the cross and change it then it was within his control

If he couldn't but couldn't control it then it wasn't.

Either way his worst suffering was either voluntary or it wasn't. That's a type of freedom .

God I see why md says I talk gobbledygook.

I'm just saying that we never voluntarily have a pain we can't cope with.

If Jesus couldn't bear the cross but could control it then he wouldn't have been crucified .

I'm sure everyone here knows I believe all is natural and I'm sure that doesn't include divine beings .

Consciousness needs a life form don't it?!

SA 456. I like that.

That's nice . Know thine enemy. We can be our own worst enemy.

Whatever our ideologies and beliefs we can all see truth .

Anyway I should get on. Au reviour.